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Old 09-07-2005, 11:05 AM   #31
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Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees
Also: A friendly mod reminder, please try to conduct your discussion without calling others ignorant or making broad generalisations about people based on their political beliefs. Thank-you.


but then certain people wouldn't post at all!
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Old 09-07-2005, 11:06 AM   #32
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i learned that having the president and vice president tell people that they will die if they vote for democrats

C'mon Irvine.....you're too smart to make such an absurd statement.
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Old 09-07-2005, 11:09 AM   #33
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C'mon Irvine.....you're too smart to make such an absurd statement.


Dick Cheney: "It's absolutely essential that eight weeks from today, on Nov. 2, we make the right choice, because if we make the wrong choice then the danger is that we'll get hit again and we'll be hit in a way that will be devastating from the standpoint of the United States."
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Old 09-07-2005, 11:10 AM   #34
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Originally posted by Irvine511

Dick Cheney: "It's absolutely essential that eight weeks from today, on Nov. 2, we make the right choice, because if we make the wrong choice then the danger is that we'll get hit again and we'll be hit in a way that will be devastating from the standpoint of the United States."
uh yeah, I remember that little gem

maybe he just misspoke
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Old 09-07-2005, 11:12 AM   #35
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Originally posted by Irvine511




yes.

you'll find them well supported, researched, focused on all levels of government and pulling from respected, non-partisan sources such as the NYT, WaPo, LAT, various *conservative* blogs, and nightly news casts.

but why bother thinking?



Those are your sources that are non-partisan?
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Old 09-07-2005, 11:13 AM   #36
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Originally posted by Irvine511
Dick Cheney: "It's absolutely essential that eight weeks from today, on Nov. 2, we make the right choice, because if we make the wrong choice then the danger is that we'll get hit again and we'll be hit in a way that will be devastating from the standpoint of the United States."
Cheney is obviously saying that he believes his administrations approach to fighting terrorism is superior/more effective to that of his opposition. He is in no way making a direct correlation between voting for a democrat and dying.
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Old 09-07-2005, 11:13 AM   #37
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Headache, can we just post that over and over again in all the threads pertaining to Hurricane Katrina? That was very well-said and pretty much sums up what I feel ... other than who I voted for.
go nuts
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Old 09-07-2005, 11:16 AM   #38
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Those are your sources that are non-partisan?


um, yes?

if you're going to fall for the canard that the three most respected newspapers in the country -- NYT, WaPo, and the LAT -- are somehow liberal propaganda machines, then there's little use discussing things.

seriously: find me a conservative that thinks Bush has done even a passable job on this.

the Washington Times -- the WT!!! -- even blames FEMA, stopping just short of singling out Bush:

Michael Brown confirmed the dysfunctional performance of his organization throughout the first three or four days following Hurricane Katrina's assault on New Orleans. In an interview on CNN's "Paula Zahn Now," three-and-a-half days after Katrina made landfall, Mr. Brown insisted that the federal government in general and FEMA in particular had no idea until that very day that tens of thousands of New Orleans residents and tourists had assembled at the city's convention center.
"Sir, you aren't just telling me you just learned that the folks at the convention center didn't have food and water until today [Thursday], are you?" Mrs. Zahn asked incredulously. "You had no idea they were completely cut off?"
"Paula, the federal government did not even know about the convention center people until today," Mr. Brown said, ever so matter-of-factly. With that reply, he confirmed the enormous size of the disaster that was the federal response.
How the federal government should respond to emergencies and disasters is detailed in the National Response Plan, a 426-page report issued by the Department of Homeland Security. "The National Response Plan embodies our nation's commitment to the concept of one team, one goal," Tom Ridge, the secretary of Homeland Security at the time, declared on Jan. 6, 2005, when the response plan was revealed. "This achievement is a bold step forward in bringing unity in our response to disasters and terrorist threats and attacks." The plan was overwhelmed by events in its first major test with reality.
Guiding the nation's response to emergencies and disasters, the National Response Plan "establishes a comprehensive all-hazards approach to enhance the ability of the United States to manage domestic incidents," the Department of Homeland Security asserted. "The plan incorporates best practices and procedures from incident management disciplines," including emergency management, law enforcement and public health, "and integrates them into a unified structure. It forms the basis of how the federal government coordinates with state, local and tribal governments and the private sector during incidents." Contemplating a national catastrophe comparable to Katrina, a department fact sheet states that the response plan "ensures the seamless integration of the federal government when an incident exceeds local and state capabilities." Moreover, the plan "provided the means to swiftly deliver federal support in response to catastrophic incidents."
In the wake of the disastrous initial responses to the Katrina disaster, the self-congratulatory conclusion asserted in the preface of the response plan is particularly disturbing. "The end result is vastly improved coordination among federal, state, local and tribal organizations to help save lives and protect America's communities by increasing the speed, effectiveness and efficiency of incident management." By FEMA's own description of its mission, they failed.
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Old 09-07-2005, 11:17 AM   #39
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Originally posted by MaxFisher


Cheney is obviously saying that he believes his administrations approach to fighting terrorism is superior/more effective to that of his opposition. He is in no way making a direct correlation between voting for a democrat and dying.

yes.

if you don't vote for them, you're more likely to be killed by a terrorist.
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Old 09-07-2005, 11:18 AM   #40
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as for the poll, i'll just post the bottom line and then provide a link:

"The trend in the President's job rating on responding to Katrina has been a steady decline over the last week, a story not told by any other poll. Most important (at least to MP) is that interviewers conducted last night tend to confirm the drop in Bush's rating seen in the polls done in the heart of the weekend."

http://www.mysterypollster.com/main/...a_polling.html



also, think about the question: do you "blame" the president for the hurricane? bad question. do you "blame" him for the inadequate response to the hurricane would be better.
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Old 09-07-2005, 11:18 AM   #41
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Originally posted by Irvine511
yes.

if you don't vote for them, you're more likely to be killed by a terrorist.

I think that's a stretch but I understand your interpretation.
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Old 09-07-2005, 11:19 AM   #42
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You just don't get it do you? People see through the constant anger and blame liberals project towards Bush. Didn't you learn anything from the past presidential election?

I'll let the ingnorance of people like you and the ignorance of the democratic party continue to allow more and more republican election wins.
Unfortunately, I *did* learn from the last presidential election, but I'll reserve my comments on that.

Being neither democrat or republican, I'm sick and tired of hiding behind political lines, when its so clear and obvious much of our government is out to lunch on a broad spectrum of issues.

What we the people need and demand is accountability. Plain and simple.



I tend to agree with the sensibility of Headache.. a massive failure of government on all levels and accountability needs to be demanded, no divided onto partisan lines.
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Old 09-07-2005, 11:19 AM   #43
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okay, time to calm down.



sorry, total overreaction to this thread on my part.



i'm just feeling this very acutely for some reason, and should go eat some lunch.
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Old 09-07-2005, 11:21 AM   #44
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I hear you, Irvine. I'm not usually one to get het up over anything the government does, but I've found myself reacting to all of this in ways that surprise even myself.

But hey, if it ends up making me more politically active in the long run, then bully for me.
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Old 09-07-2005, 11:24 AM   #45
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Originally posted by Westport



Very well said.
Good stuff.
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