CNN: Burning Churches in Alabama

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sue4u2

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hatching some plot, scheming some scheme
I'm just hearing about this coming over the wires on CNN.
in Centerville, Alabama.. (This is breaking news) so not alot of details so far
Please don't let this be happening again.. According to CNN It happened in one county so far, and maybe another county.
Excuse me while I cry now..
 
CNN website:

A string of fires scorched churches in central Alabama and investigators are tying to determine if an arsonist is at work, a state official said today. Six fires were reported in two counties between about midnight and 3 a.m. today. Two churches were destroyed, but no one was injured in the blazes. "We're clearly investigating these as arson," said Ragan Ingram, with the Alabama Department of Insurance

:sad:
 
The burnings don't seem to be racially motivated because both black and white churches (churches are still pretty damn segregated around here) have been hit.
 
verte76 said:
The burnings don't seem to be racially motivated because both black and white churches (churches are still pretty damn segregated around here) have been hit.

It only takes one person who thinks that these churches shouldn't be segregated..
But reports are still coming in....
6 mostly white churches have been hit. According to CNN..
 
sue4u2 said:


It only takes one person who thinks that these churches shouldn't be segregated..
But reports are still coming in....
6 mostly white churches have been hit. According to CNN..

You're right, and there are more mixed congregations now than there used to be when some commentator said the most segregated hour of the week was eleven A.M. on Sundays. I'm not watching the news now............I don't have a TV in my computer room. We're having a hailstorm in Birmingham. Never a dull moment.
 
verte76 said:

We're having a hailstorm in Birmingham. Never a dull moment.

:yikes: that sucks.. We're having thick fog in Mobile.

I'm revisiting the Rattle & Hum video..
There is nothing new on the news.. that I saw.?
This computer I am using now is so slow it takes a while to post.
My other hard drive is still out of commisssion..
..crashed in other words :sad:
 
nbcrusader said:
Funny how we look at violence against six Christian churches and start speculating whether there was another motive....

Wouldn't location and history kind of support some of the early speculation?
 
nbcrusader said:


You mean in a stereotypical way?

No, I just mean that this area of the country has had burning of churches that have been racially motivated even up to recent times. But very little chain burnings that have had any other motivations.

That's all I was saying.
 
doubleU said:


Wouldn't location and history kind of support some of the early speculation?

No. There were about 20 black churches bombed in Birmingham between 1945 and 1963. These were all orchestrated by the Ku Klux Klan or someone in cahoots with them. None of these bombings was a positive event, to put it mildly, but the bombing of the Sixteenth Street Baptist Church, in September, 1963, was the biggie; four little girls were killed when the bomb blew up a room in the church. Later that same day, one of the Klansmen in on the job stopped at a filling station. The attendant took one look at the guy and said "Now, this time you guys have really gone too far". He was later arrested, tried, and convicted of the crime. Whew! The church bombings that are going on these days have nothing to do with these bombings.
 
verte76 said:
(churches are still pretty damn segregated around here)

Churches are pretty damned segregated all over. I read a report a few years ago (wish I could remember where that was so I could post it -- I'll have to look later) that concluded that churches were one of the, if not the, most segregated places in the US. It wasn't so much the hardcore "you can't come here" as it was people were just more comfortable going to church with their "own."
 
verte76 said:


The church bombings that are going on these days have nothing to do with these bombings.

I didn't say they were. I was just saying that even as early as 3 years ago there were church arsons that were racially motivated. When reports first came out and no one knew all the facts there was speculation that maybe they were racially motivated. All I was saying is I could understand that first speculation given the history of the area.

Of course now we know they weren't.
 
doubleU said:


I didn't say they were. I was just saying that even as early as 3 years ago there were church arsons that were racially motivated. When reports first came out and no one knew all the facts there was speculation that maybe they were racially motivated. All I was saying is I could understand that first speculation given the history of the area.

Of course now we know they weren't.

OK. Unfortunately racially motivated bombings and burnings are always going to be with us. :mad: :censored: :censored: :censored: :censored:
 
Fires burn 4 more Alabama churches

BOLIGEE, Alabama (AP) -- Fires damaged four more rural Baptist churches overnight following rash of suspected arsons that burned five others south of Birmingham last week, a state official said Tuesday.

The four new fires were near the Mississippi line, about 10 to 20 miles from each other. All were in sparsely populated areas off rural roads, similar to the five that burned early Friday south of Birmingham.

Ragan Ingram, a spokesman for the state insurance agency that oversees fire investigations, said it was too soon to say if there was any link between the sets of blazes.
 
^ I saw a story about that which made some cryptic passing reference to the possibility of "the crystal meth trade" being involved--anyone know what that might mean? :scratch:
 
Church blazes 'No. 1 priority' for federal agency

BOLIGEE, Alabama (CNN) -- The spate of church fires in rural Alabama is motivated by hate, a state official said Wednesday, but it's not clear whether arsonists are choosing their targets on the basis of race or religion.

Race or religion. Does it matter when it comes to a hate crime? It seems that the burning of a church is just another arson event, unless their is another motive involved.
 
nbcrusader said:


Race or religion. Does it matter when it comes to a hate crime? It seems that the burning of a church is just another arson event, unless their is another motive involved.

BOLIGEE, Alabama (CNN) -- The spate of church fires in rural Alabama is motivated by hate, a state official said Wednesday, but it's not clear whether arsonists are choosing their targets on the basis of race or religion.

Um, the quote you stated, says the church fires were motivated by hate.

I think the destinction between race or religion will aid them in finding who, and possibly help them determine future targets.
 
nbcrusader said:
Nine Christian churches....

Seems that all nine were targeted based on religion. But, we need to investigate jusy to make sure?

So if they were all predominantly black Christian Churches, race still wouldn't be motive?
 
You are missing the point - we have nine churches targeted, and people stand around wondering if there are other motives - as if targeting Christian churches is no big deal. This wasn't a series of meeting halls, secular and religious.
 
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nbcrusader said:
You are missing the point - we have nine churches targeted, and people stand around wondering if there are other motives - as if targeting Christian churches is no big deal.

Ok I get what you are saying but let's not forget that "supposed christians" have targeted other Christian churches due to other motives. I really don't see anyone saying targeting Christian churches is no big deal.
 
Plus it's important from an investigative standpoint to consider any and all motivations which might possibly have been involved. That could help narrow the list of just who they're looking for.

And doubleU is right as far as it goes about precedent for "supposed Christians" targeting other churches--sadly, in the Deep South where churches are focal points for all kinds of social identities besides religious ones proper, there is indeed a tradition of precisely that.

That's not to say this couldn't all be the work of some non-Christian who just randomly hates Christians in general, but it's too early to conclude that.
 
Fair enough. Investigation is always to get to proper conclusions.

I find the use of precedent of "supposed Christian" on Christian violence used as a cautionary factor interesting. You rarely see the precedent of black on black violence as a cautionary factor to an incident otherwise labeled as racially motivated.

:shrug:
 
I have a bit of news on this stuff. It's two men in a black SUV, driving around setting these fires. All of the churches involved are independent (i.e, non-Southern Baptist Convention) Baptist churches. They have no affiliation with each other. They haven't tracked down the arsonists yet but they are following clues to find them.
 
nbcrusader said:
I find the use of precedent of "supposed Christian" on Christian violence used as a cautionary factor interesting. You rarely see the precedent of black on black violence as a cautionary factor to an incident otherwise labeled as racially motivated.
Not quite sure what you're getting at there. Are you referring to incidents where the offender's racial identity is unclear?

I can't recall ever hearing of an incident where blacks attacked black churches, though I can certainly recall incidents of whites attacking white churches--not for racial nor religious motives, obviously (unless you count anti-desegregationism as a "racial" motive). In borrowing doubleU's phrase, "supposed Christians" I didn't mean to imply that Christianity per se has anything to with such incidents--I don't think it does. Calling it "Christian-on-Christian violence" or some such would be missing the mark completely, in my view. My point was that in light of Southern history, the fact that all extablishments targeted were churches shouldn't automatically lead to a presumption of anti-Christian motivations. If blacks were to target other black churches, that wouldn't necessarily shock me, but it would certainly make for a virgin entry to the historically-informed-possible-precedents list. And for better or for worse, historical precedent does enter into investigators' hypothesizing.

:shrug: Perhaps this will turn out to be someone(s) who has a problem with non-affiliated Baptist churches. If that's the case, then regardless of these jerks' racial and religious identity, most likely their main motivation would be essentially sociopolitical.
 
msnbc

BIRMINGHAM, Ala. - Two young men have been arrested and a third person is being sought in the arsons that destroyed or damaged at least nine rural churches in Alabama last month, federal law enforcement sources said Wednesday.

The two were arrested Tuesday night, NBC’s Pete Williams reported.

WVTM-TV of Birmingham, citing the state fire marshal’s office, said the two are students at Birmingham Southern College and were arrested at a college dorm.

The two suspects, identified as Ben Moseley and Russell DuBusk, were to appear in court in Birmingham later Wednesday morning.

Police are also searching for a third person, reportedly a student at the University of Alabama in Birmingham.

He was identified as Matthew Lee Cloyd, and owns a vehicle that matches the description of a vehicle that witnesses had placed at the scene of several of the fires, WVTM reported.

Investigators analyzed tire tracks and traced the purchase of the tires to Cloyd.

The pastor at one of the destroyed churches said he was told of the arrests by investigators.

“We are relieved. We were fearful while they were on the loose because we did not know their agenda,” said Jim Parker, pastor of the Ashby Baptist Church in Brierfield, which was burned to the ground.

A federal source said the apparent motive was that the three students just liked to set and watch fires.
 
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