CNN: Burning Churches in Alabama - Page 2 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 02-05-2006, 10:25 PM   #16
Blue Crack Addict
 
verte76's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: hoping for changes
Posts: 23,331
Local Time: 04:34 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by doubleU


I didn't say they were. I was just saying that even as early as 3 years ago there were church arsons that were racially motivated. When reports first came out and no one knew all the facts there was speculation that maybe they were racially motivated. All I was saying is I could understand that first speculation given the history of the area.

Of course now we know they weren't.
OK. Unfortunately racially motivated bombings and burnings are always going to be with us.
__________________

__________________
verte76 is offline  
Old 02-07-2006, 02:41 PM   #17
Blue Crack Addict
 
nbcrusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 08:34 AM
Fires burn 4 more Alabama churches

Quote:
BOLIGEE, Alabama (AP) -- Fires damaged four more rural Baptist churches overnight following rash of suspected arsons that burned five others south of Birmingham last week, a state official said Tuesday.

The four new fires were near the Mississippi line, about 10 to 20 miles from each other. All were in sparsely populated areas off rural roads, similar to the five that burned early Friday south of Birmingham.

Ragan Ingram, a spokesman for the state insurance agency that oversees fire investigations, said it was too soon to say if there was any link between the sets of blazes.
__________________

__________________
nbcrusader is offline  
Old 02-07-2006, 02:44 PM   #18
Forum Moderator
 
yolland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,471
Local Time: 05:34 PM
^ I saw a story about that which made some cryptic passing reference to the possibility of "the crystal meth trade" being involved--anyone know what that might mean?
__________________
yolland is offline  
Old 02-08-2006, 02:01 PM   #19
Blue Crack Addict
 
nbcrusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 08:34 AM
Church blazes 'No. 1 priority' for federal agency

Quote:
BOLIGEE, Alabama (CNN) -- The spate of church fires in rural Alabama is motivated by hate, a state official said Wednesday, but it's not clear whether arsonists are choosing their targets on the basis of race or religion.
Race or religion. Does it matter when it comes to a hate crime? It seems that the burning of a church is just another arson event, unless their is another motive involved.
__________________
nbcrusader is offline  
Old 02-08-2006, 04:32 PM   #20
Acrobat
 
doubleU's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 371
Local Time: 10:34 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


Race or religion. Does it matter when it comes to a hate crime? It seems that the burning of a church is just another arson event, unless their is another motive involved.
Quote:
BOLIGEE, Alabama (CNN) -- The spate of church fires in rural Alabama is motivated by hate, a state official said Wednesday, but it's not clear whether arsonists are choosing their targets on the basis of race or religion.
Um, the quote you stated, says the church fires were motivated by hate.

I think the destinction between race or religion will aid them in finding who, and possibly help them determine future targets.
__________________
doubleU is offline  
Old 02-08-2006, 04:39 PM   #21
Blue Crack Addict
 
nbcrusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 08:34 AM
Nine Christian churches....

Seems that all nine were targeted based on religion. But, we need to investigate jusy to make sure?
__________________
nbcrusader is offline  
Old 02-08-2006, 05:04 PM   #22
Acrobat
 
doubleU's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 371
Local Time: 10:34 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
Nine Christian churches....

Seems that all nine were targeted based on religion. But, we need to investigate jusy to make sure?
So if they were all predominantly black Christian Churches, race still wouldn't be motive?
__________________
doubleU is offline  
Old 02-08-2006, 05:08 PM   #23
Blue Crack Addict
 
nbcrusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 08:34 AM
You are missing the point - we have nine churches targeted, and people stand around wondering if there are other motives - as if targeting Christian churches is no big deal. This wasn't a series of meeting halls, secular and religious.
__________________
nbcrusader is offline  
Old 02-08-2006, 05:11 PM   #24
Acrobat
 
doubleU's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 371
Local Time: 10:34 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
You are missing the point - we have nine churches targeted, and people stand around wondering if there are other motives - as if targeting Christian churches is no big deal.
Ok I get what you are saying but let's not forget that "supposed christians" have targeted other Christian churches due to other motives. I really don't see anyone saying targeting Christian churches is no big deal.
__________________
doubleU is offline  
Old 02-08-2006, 05:19 PM   #25
Forum Moderator
 
yolland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,471
Local Time: 05:34 PM
Plus it's important from an investigative standpoint to consider any and all motivations which might possibly have been involved. That could help narrow the list of just who they're looking for.

And doubleU is right as far as it goes about precedent for "supposed Christians" targeting other churches--sadly, in the Deep South where churches are focal points for all kinds of social identities besides religious ones proper, there is indeed a tradition of precisely that.

That's not to say this couldn't all be the work of some non-Christian who just randomly hates Christians in general, but it's too early to conclude that.
__________________
yolland is offline  
Old 02-08-2006, 05:43 PM   #26
Blue Crack Addict
 
nbcrusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 08:34 AM
Fair enough. Investigation is always to get to proper conclusions.

I find the use of precedent of "supposed Christian" on Christian violence used as a cautionary factor interesting. You rarely see the precedent of black on black violence as a cautionary factor to an incident otherwise labeled as racially motivated.

__________________
nbcrusader is offline  
Old 02-08-2006, 05:44 PM   #27
Blue Crack Addict
 
verte76's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: hoping for changes
Posts: 23,331
Local Time: 04:34 PM
I have a bit of news on this stuff. It's two men in a black SUV, driving around setting these fires. All of the churches involved are independent (i.e, non-Southern Baptist Convention) Baptist churches. They have no affiliation with each other. They haven't tracked down the arsonists yet but they are following clues to find them.
__________________
verte76 is offline  
Old 02-08-2006, 06:08 PM   #28
Forum Moderator
 
yolland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,471
Local Time: 05:34 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
I find the use of precedent of "supposed Christian" on Christian violence used as a cautionary factor interesting. You rarely see the precedent of black on black violence as a cautionary factor to an incident otherwise labeled as racially motivated.
Not quite sure what you're getting at there. Are you referring to incidents where the offender's racial identity is unclear?

I can't recall ever hearing of an incident where blacks attacked black churches, though I can certainly recall incidents of whites attacking white churches--not for racial nor religious motives, obviously (unless you count anti-desegregationism as a "racial" motive). In borrowing doubleU's phrase, "supposed Christians" I didn't mean to imply that Christianity per se has anything to with such incidents--I don't think it does. Calling it "Christian-on-Christian violence" or some such would be missing the mark completely, in my view. My point was that in light of Southern history, the fact that all extablishments targeted were churches shouldn't automatically lead to a presumption of anti-Christian motivations. If blacks were to target other black churches, that wouldn't necessarily shock me, but it would certainly make for a virgin entry to the historically-informed-possible-precedents list. And for better or for worse, historical precedent does enter into investigators' hypothesizing.

Perhaps this will turn out to be someone(s) who has a problem with non-affiliated Baptist churches. If that's the case, then regardless of these jerks' racial and religious identity, most likely their main motivation would be essentially sociopolitical.
__________________
yolland is offline  
Old 03-08-2006, 11:41 AM   #29
Blue Crack Addict
 
MrsSpringsteen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 24,997
Local Time: 11:34 AM
msnbc

BIRMINGHAM, Ala. - Two young men have been arrested and a third person is being sought in the arsons that destroyed or damaged at least nine rural churches in Alabama last month, federal law enforcement sources said Wednesday.

The two were arrested Tuesday night, NBC’s Pete Williams reported.

WVTM-TV of Birmingham, citing the state fire marshal’s office, said the two are students at Birmingham Southern College and were arrested at a college dorm.

The two suspects, identified as Ben Moseley and Russell DuBusk, were to appear in court in Birmingham later Wednesday morning.

Police are also searching for a third person, reportedly a student at the University of Alabama in Birmingham.

He was identified as Matthew Lee Cloyd, and owns a vehicle that matches the description of a vehicle that witnesses had placed at the scene of several of the fires, WVTM reported.

Investigators analyzed tire tracks and traced the purchase of the tires to Cloyd.

The pastor at one of the destroyed churches said he was told of the arrests by investigators.

“We are relieved. We were fearful while they were on the loose because we did not know their agenda,” said Jim Parker, pastor of the Ashby Baptist Church in Brierfield, which was burned to the ground.

A federal source said the apparent motive was that the three students just liked to set and watch fires.
__________________
MrsSpringsteen is online now  
Old 03-08-2006, 01:32 PM   #30
Blue Crack Addict
 
nbcrusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 08:34 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen
A federal source said the apparent motive was that the three students just liked to set and watch fires.
__________________

__________________
nbcrusader is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:34 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com