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Old 01-04-2003, 06:45 PM   #16
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i personally don't care, to each his own i suppose. however, i would never do it. i do think it's a little creepy that people would want a duplicate of someone else, because i can't really think of anyone who's perfect enough to be duplicated.

i certainly wouldn't wanna clone myself and have a daughter, eww!
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Old 01-04-2003, 06:45 PM   #17
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What's most disturbing about reproductive cloning is that this woman's baby is not only her daughter but also her identical twin! Also, from an evolutionary standpoint, if cloning becomes a common practice in the future, than it will reduce the amount of genetic variance in the gene pool. I find this to be most harmful to human existence.
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Old 01-05-2003, 12:21 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep
Wake Up, Cloning's Day Has Come

By Michael Shermer

January 2 2003


In the interest of assuaging these and other fears, I propose the Three Laws of Cloning.

* A human clone is a human being no less unique in his or her personhood than an identical twin.

* A human clone is a human being with all the rights and privileges that accompany this legal and moral status.

* A human clone is a human being to be accorded the dignity and respect due any member of our species.

Instead of restricting or banning cloning, I propose that we adopt the Three Laws of Cloning.

The soul of science is found in courageous thought and creative experiment, not in restrictive fear and prohibitions. For science to progress it must be given the opportunity to succeed or fail.

Let's run the cloning experiment and see what happens.


Dolly Creator Denounces Sect's Clone Claims



LONDON (Reuters) - Human clones are likely to be unhealthy and such experiments should be banned, the head of the institute that created Dolly the sheep said on Saturday, hours after a cult said it had produced the second cloned baby.

Harry Griffin of the Roslin Institute in Scotland, which made history by cloning Dolly from an adult sheep in 1996, told Reuters the claims by Clonaid, a group linked to the UFO-obsessed Raelian religious sect, were probably bogus.

"Clonaid have made claims of two births, but of yet provided no evidence that either baby exists, no evidence from DNA tests, and as yet, therefore, there is no reason to believe this is anything other than a long, drawn out publicity stunt."

But if cloned babies have been produced, the experiments should be stopped, Griffin said.

"I think its entirely unacceptable for groups like Clonaid to be gambling with the health of children," he said.

Griffin said Clonaid's claim of a high success rate in its human cloning experiment flew in the face of years of research into cloning in other species.

"There is a lot about this story that doesn't ring true. Success rates in every other species that have been cloned have been low, with lots of problems for the fetus and newborn clone," he said.

"Attempts to clone monkeys have been entirely unsuccessful and the sort of successes claimed by Clonaid are totally at odds with all past history of cloning other species."

Dolly the sheep is still alive but suffers from severe arthritis. Griffin said scientists are unsure whether her health problems are a result of her being a clone, but countless other experiments have shown that clones are often unhealthy.

"There is a whole raft of serious physiological deformities reported in clones, and even in entirely healthy animals its not entirely clear they are normal," he said.

The process of cloning involves taking the genes of an adult -- the instructions for life that make every organism unique -- and transferring them into an embryo, turning it into a genetic twin of the original.

But Griffin said that although the clone has the same genes as the adult, there can be differences between the way genes behave, which often means the embryos of clones cannot grow to term, die shortly after birth or live crippled by disease.

"You've got to persuade the 40,000 genes in that cell to stop behaving as if they are in a mammary gland cell, or a skin cell or whatever, and start behaving as if they are in an embryo," he said.

"We don't know how this reprogramming takes place. One, several or more of the genes can be inappropriately expressed."

Often cloned embryos do not survive to produce a live birth. Sometimes clones die shortly after birth, and other times they develop serious health problems later in life, he said.

"All these things have been reported in the clones of cattle, sheep, pigs, goats, mice, rabbits. And there's no reason to believe that similar problems will not arise in the cloning of a child," he said.
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Old 01-05-2003, 11:04 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by us3
Dolly the sheep is still alive but suffers from severe arthritis. Griffin said scientists are unsure whether her health problems are a result of her being a clone, but countless other experiments have shown that clones are often unhealthy.
I was going to make this comment, but it seems that an expert made it before me. I don't have much medical experience, but AFAIK, arthritis is and 'old age' disease (I think it has to do with the stiffening of the veins, or something like that). So even though Dolly was born in 1996, it had the DNA-structure of a sheep that was even older, accellerating the aging process in Dolly. The researchers who cloned Dolly are therefore right (IMO) to denounce the cloning of humans.
It's sad what's happening with Dolly, but at least now we know what can go wrong. Hopefully this is a wise lesson, but it seems others are more interested in their own glory. Sigh...

Marty
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Old 01-05-2003, 10:32 PM   #20
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it's all a lie. there's no way they actually cloned a human.
it's propaganda for their cause.
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Old 01-05-2003, 10:41 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by JOFO
it's all a lie. there's no way they actually cloned a human.
it's propaganda for their cause.
Or to recruit for their cult.....
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Old 01-05-2003, 10:49 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by JOFO
it's all a lie. there's no way they actually cloned a human.
it's propaganda for their cause.

That's entirely possible, since they won't show anyone the baby, any DNA evidence, anything that proves that they did a clone. It does seem like they just want a bunch of publicity.....they're getting it.
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Old 01-09-2003, 01:16 AM   #23
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I in no way believe that this cloned baby is real.

But I guess we'll see. If this baby gets cancer, arthritis, scoliosis, asthma, and shingles by the age of three, I might change my mind.

Look...from someone studying genetics....cloning is incredibly difficult and volatile. There is an increibly slim chance that this has worked.....and two babies? And more on the way? it just doesn't fly for me.

Oh yeah. ANd of course we can't test it, I forgot. They won't allow us to. Only THEIR doctors. Yup, this is valid.
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Old 01-09-2003, 02:25 AM   #24
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they definitely are meddling with something ( human reproduction)that doesn't need meddling with. We have been trundling along as nature intended for centuries and a few of us turn out OK. I think other things need addressing/ researching /funding before clone technology should be allowed. So often it seems in the latter half of the 20th century and now the 21st, we have just blindly allowed meddling scientist to do as they please and we eventually all suffer the consequences.

But I can't resist telling you this. The raelians have a home-base in this area( a couple live near my mum, they have badly painted flying saucers on their van and even though it is the most beautiful beach place on earth (imho) they never venture outside.
HOWEVER, a few years ago they held a conference there( lots of ecstacy(the drug) and dancing and ugly old guys having sex with beautiful young women is how I summed it up...no wonder the lake is now polluted)Rael, the head sherang is creepy, but his second in command.....well I have this thing for long dark hair and cheek bones. Wummawumma. I know his name now( I hope they don't read this and come and "get me") He is French, living in Oz, drop dead gorgeous and calls himself The Bishop of Oceania( oh yeah? and I'm the Nouveau Queen of Sheba!!) He was reported in the local newspaper recently asking that they be respected , that Rael deserves the same respect as the Pope or the Dalai Lama. He may not have respect, but he has a lot of his devotees money.You have to earn respect imho.
Just thought I'd add that rivetting piece of info.....

Leave it to Mother Nature imho.
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Old 01-09-2003, 09:34 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by Popmartijn
AFAIK, arthritis is and 'old age' disease (I think it has to do with the stiffening of the veins, or something like that). So even though Dolly was born in 1996, it had the DNA-structure of a sheep that was even older, accellerating the aging process in Dolly.
Arthritis is an autoimmune disease (the immune system turns on itself, basically).

Some of the hottest research around is centred on telomeric lengths and cloning. Basically, when DNA is replicated, it is successively shortened due to the discontinuous replication of the lagging strand. Telomeres and aging has been a hotly pursued topic for many years, and it is only natural that when using adult cell lines, the telomeric length may affect premature aging of the clones. What is interesting is that in the end, cloning may offer the proof of the validity of the telomere/aging theories.

The_Sweetest_Thing, are you studying molecular genetics or genomics?
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Old 01-09-2003, 10:30 PM   #26
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Mainly molecular genetics (I'm still undergrad at UofT majoring in Human Biology), although I'm really interested in genomics right now....our program is struggling with trying to expose us to genomics b/c it's such a hot topic...

You've studied sceince. No one talks about telomeres and lagging strands otherwise Where did (do?) you go to school and what did you study?
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Old 01-09-2003, 10:34 PM   #27
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Gosh, I hate cloning! It's so damn cruel and selfish. I hope these claims that recent births are clones are not true, and these cult people are just off-the-wall kooks. I'm not surprised that they are into drugs and stuff. Ugh. Not the kind of people I like to hang out with, to say the least.
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Old 01-10-2003, 12:46 PM   #28
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I am against cloning, but I love cults and this one seems to be super special so far...
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Old 01-10-2003, 01:11 PM   #29
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I just thought I should say

my summing up about ecstacy and all, is just my opinion. I didn't see any drugs being taken, I wasn't even there. They had a rave party thingo and tents set up as 'love cells" or whatever they called them. I was just being flippant again I suppose. I don't want to be slanderous or anything.
Beam me up ..scotty or frenchie...why do I suddenly feel like cartman?
I should keep my mouth and stick to fact and threads about U2.
sorry
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Old 01-10-2003, 04:48 PM   #30
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Re: I just thought I should say

Quote:
Originally posted by cass
my summing up about ecstacy and all, is just my opinion. I didn't see any drugs being taken, I wasn't even there. They had a rave party thingo and tents set up as 'love cells" or whatever they called them. I was just being flippant again I suppose. I don't want to be slanderous or anything.
Beam me up ..scotty or frenchie...why do I suddenly feel like cartman?
I should keep my mouth and stick to fact and threads about U2.
sorry

I wouldn't worry about it. I'm sure a group this controversial has had much worse things said about it than "some members may have taken illegal drugs at a meeting". Good grief, just thinking about it---
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