Climate Change Hurts the Poor - Page 2 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 03-26-2006, 11:40 AM   #16
War Child
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: OC
Posts: 711
Local Time: 04:51 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by melon


Lest we forget, the Democrats have not been in control of Congress now for 12 years, and it is up to Congress, not the President, to write and pass bills. Spending over $50 million to investigate a blow job and an anti-flag burning amendment was more important to Republicans than actually doing their job.

Melon
Lest we forget. The potential for Hurricanes like Katrina were around in the days when Dems were in control and actually had a say in running the country.
__________________

__________________
cardosino is offline  
Old 03-26-2006, 11:57 AM   #17
ONE
love, blood, life
 
melon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 11,781
Local Time: 11:51 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by cardosino
Lest we forget. The potential for Hurricanes like Katrina were around in the days when Dems were in control and actually had a say in running the country.
Cute, but the New Orleans disaster scenario did not exist until the 1990s. I don't have the exact year, but since 1990, we have only had two years when we have had both a Democratic President and Democratic Congress. That means 14 years of having Republicans at the helm in at least in the Legislature and/or Presidency.

Plus, there was even a marked difference in disaster preparation for a potential New Orleans disaster.

Here's Bill Clinton:

http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/12528233.htm

Quote:
For example, in the 1990s, in planning for a New Orleans nightmare scenario, the federal government figured it would pre-deploy nearby ships with pumps to remove water from the below-sea-level city and have hospital ships nearby, said James Lee Witt, who was FEMA director under President Clinton.
Here's George W. Bush:

Quote:
Federal flood control spending for southeastern Louisiana has been chopped from $69 million in 2001 to $36.5 million in 2005, according to budget documents. Federal hurricane protection for the Lake Pontchartrain vicinity in the Army Corps of Engineers' budget dropped from $14.25 million in 2002 to $5.7 million this year. Louisiana Democratic Sen. Mary Landrieu requested $27 million this year.

Both the New Orleans Times-Picayune newspaper and a local business magazine reported that the effects of the budget cuts at the Army Corps of Engineers were severe.

In 2004, the Corps essentially stopped major work on the now-breached levee system that had protected New Orleans from flooding. It was the first such stoppage in 37 years, the Times-Picayune reported.
And even as late as a few months before Katrina, Bush still balked at spending $14 billion on fixing Louisiana's wetlands. Sure, even if it had passed at that time, it would still have been too late; but the point is that this was never going to be on the GOP's priority list.

Kind of reminds me of how the Bush Administration gave the Taliban $43 million in May 2001 for its work on the "War on Drugs."

http://www.robertscheer.com/1_natcol...mns/052201.htm

And somehow we're supposed to believe that Bush was concerned about terrorism the whole time? How much of that $43 million ended up in the pockets of Al Qaeda?

Yet we're still going to blame Democrats for all the ills of the world, right?

Melon
__________________

__________________
melon is offline  
Old 03-26-2006, 12:28 PM   #18
War Child
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: OC
Posts: 711
Local Time: 04:51 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by melon


Cute, but the New Orleans disaster scenario did not exist until the 1990s.


Riiigghhhttt..., tell the folks in Galveston there were no hurricanes before then.
__________________
cardosino is offline  
Old 03-26-2006, 12:29 PM   #19
ONE
love, blood, life
 
melon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 11,781
Local Time: 11:51 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by cardosino
Riiigghhhttt..., tell the folks in Galveston there were no hurricanes before then.
A completely irrelevant argument.

Melon
__________________
melon is offline  
Old 03-26-2006, 12:44 PM   #20
War Child
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: OC
Posts: 711
Local Time: 04:51 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by melon


A completely irrelevant argument.

Melon
you brought politics into it, blaming the Republicans for not spending th emoney on th elevees, yet the potential for the disaster has always been there during administrations of all kinds.
Completely relevant. Seems you don't like it when you CAN'T just blame Republicans. Entirely consistent though, kudos.
__________________
cardosino is offline  
Old 03-26-2006, 12:48 PM   #21
ONE
love, blood, life
 
melon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 11,781
Local Time: 11:51 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by cardosino
you brought politics into it, blaming the Republicans for not spending th emoney on th elevees, yet the potential for the disaster has always been there during administrations of all kinds.
Completely relevant. Seems you don't like it when you CAN'T just blame Republicans. Entirely consistent though, kudos.
The disaster scenario regarding New Orleans did not hit public consciousness until the early 1990s. The proposal for the $14 billion to restore the wetlands existed for years, which came about particularly after a study by the U.S. Geological Survey discovered that much of the wetland loss occurred from peak oil extraction in the 1970s and 1980s. The study figured that $14 billion to restore Louisiana wetlands was a bargain compared to the $100-150 billion it was projected to repair a destroyed New Orleans.

Now who has controlled the Legislature, more or less, since the 1990s? This bill never made it out of Congress.

Melon
__________________
melon is offline  
Old 03-26-2006, 01:12 PM   #22
Blue Crack Addict
 
nbcrusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 08:51 AM
Not a surprising turn to see yet another issue turn into a left/right finger pointing session.

The New Orleans disaster scenario has existed since the local natives told the French it was a bad location for a city.
__________________
nbcrusader is offline  
Old 03-26-2006, 01:14 PM   #23
ONE
love, blood, life
 
melon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 11,781
Local Time: 11:51 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
The New Orleans disaster scenario has existed since the local natives told the French it was a bad location for a city.
A statement that smacks of willful blindness of the situation.

There's a reason why the French Quarter is still standing.

Melon
__________________
melon is offline  
Old 03-26-2006, 01:38 PM   #24
Blue Crack Addict
 
nbcrusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 08:51 AM
And that would be.................?
__________________
nbcrusader is offline  
Old 03-26-2006, 01:41 PM   #25
War Child
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: OC
Posts: 711
Local Time: 04:51 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by melon


The disaster scenario regarding New Orleans did not hit public consciousness until the early 1990s. T
Oh, so now the Dems are off the hook for not doing anything about "preventive measures" because you feel the possibility of a cat 5 Hurricane hitting New Orleans wasnt in the "Pulic Consciousness" at that time?????

Quite a stretch as rationale for completely absolving them of responsibility.
__________________
cardosino is offline  
Old 03-26-2006, 01:42 PM   #26
ONE
love, blood, life
 
melon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 11,781
Local Time: 11:51 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
And that would be.................?
Contrary to popular belief about New Orleans, the French Quarter is actually above sea level.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Quarter

Quote:
At the end of August 2005, the majority of New Orleans was flooded due to levee breaches after Hurricane Katrina. The French Quarter, like most of the parts of town developed before the late 19th century, was one of the areas to remain substantially dry, since it was built on dry land that predated New Orleans' levee systems and sits 5 feet (1.5 metres) above sea level. Some streets experienced minor flooding, and several buildings experienced significant wind damage. Most of the major landmarks suffered only minor damage and most have since reopened or are scheduled to reopen. The Quarter largely escaped the looting and violence after the storm highlighted by large national and international media outlets; nearly all the fine antique and art shops in the French Quarter, for example, were untouched.
So, no, we can't scapegoat the French for this quagmire.

Melon
__________________
melon is offline  
Old 03-26-2006, 01:44 PM   #27
ONE
love, blood, life
 
melon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 11,781
Local Time: 11:51 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by cardosino
Quite a stretch as rationale for completely absolving them of responsibility.
So what comes first...the problem or the solution? You can't have a solution for an unrecognized problem. And for as long as this problem has been recognized, Republicans have ignored the solution that was brought before them.

Melon
__________________
melon is offline  
Old 03-26-2006, 02:02 PM   #28
Blue Crack Addict
 
nbcrusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 08:51 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by melon


Contrary to popular belief about New Orleans, the French Quarter is actually above sea level.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Quarter



So, no, we can't scapegoat the French for this quagmire.

Melon
Cute.

Yes, the French Quarter is a small patch of ground above sea level. The rest of the area has lived with the flood potential for centuries. Until now, we've been discussing New Orleans, not the French Quarter.

This wasn't an attempt to scapegoat the French, but to show the lenghth of time the floor risk has been "in the public consciousness".
__________________
nbcrusader is offline  
Old 03-26-2006, 02:09 PM   #29
War Child
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: OC
Posts: 711
Local Time: 04:51 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by melon


So what comes first...the problem or the solution? You can't have a solution for an unrecognized problem. And for as long as this problem has been recognized, Republicans have ignored the solution that was brought before them.

Melon
That's right, it was only discovered in the '90' that most of the area was under sea level and that hurricanes might occur there.

Facts that, let's face it, neither party did anything about.
__________________
cardosino is offline  
Old 03-26-2006, 02:09 PM   #30
ONE
love, blood, life
 
melon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 11,781
Local Time: 11:51 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
This wasn't an attempt to scapegoat the French, but to show the length of time the floor risk has been "in the public consciousness".
The reason for the $14 billion for wetland restoration is because the flood and hurricane risk was alleviated by the presence of wetlands, which have been dangerously eroded due to 20th century development. This danger was uncovered by a study by the U.S. Geological Survey--the results of which were released in the early 1990s. If the wetlands had not been damaged, the levees flat out may never have been breached.

And now we're back to where I started.

Melon
__________________

__________________
melon is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:51 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com