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Old 07-06-2005, 04:47 PM   #1
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Circumcision reduces risk of contracting HIV by 70%...

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Old 07-06-2005, 05:08 PM   #2
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You know, I got banned one time for talking about my hatred of circumcision.

Let me put it this way: it was created to reduce sexual function in men in the 19th century. "Circumcision," as listed in the Bible, only meant to cut the tip of the foreskin--not the "slash-and-burn" technique we practice today.

I think anyone who circumcises their children today are barbarians who should be arrested for child abuse. If people want to be circumcised, let them choose to do it when they're adults.

Melon
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Old 07-06-2005, 05:13 PM   #3
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And they tested this how...
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Old 07-06-2005, 05:18 PM   #4
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Circumcision Ritual May Protect Men From AIDS

Male circumcision is likely to reduce the risk of contacting HIV from intercourse with HIV infected women by about 70%. A recent study involved 3,000 HIV negative men in Africa between 18 and 24 years. Half were circumcised and other half were not circumcised. They were followed up for one year.

Researchers found that for every ten uncircumcised men who became infected with HIV, only an estimated three circumcised men contracted the virus. Further research in this area is warranted. It however makes one wonder if the religious ritual of circumcision after all does have some significance and if our forefathers new more than we think they knew!!

Bertran Auvert, the French researcher headed the trial and is expected to present the findings later this month at an International AIDS Society conference in Brazil.

This study also contradicts a previous study that linked circumcision with increased HIV infection.
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Old 07-06-2005, 05:26 PM   #5
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Further research in this area is warranted.
Exactly; like how many partners did each man have and which one's used protection, etc.
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Old 07-06-2005, 06:31 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon
You know, I got banned one time for talking about my hatred of circumcision.

Let me put it this way: it was created to reduce sexual function in men in the 19th century. "Circumcision," as listed in the Bible, only meant to cut the tip of the foreskin--not the "slash-and-burn" technique we practice today.

I think anyone who circumcises their children today are barbarians who should be arrested for child abuse. If people want to be circumcised, let them choose to do it when they're adults.

Melon
do you have kids ?
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Old 07-06-2005, 07:14 PM   #7
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i think circumcision helps reduce the transmission of AIDS from woman to man because vaginal secretions can get caught in the foreskin and be kept in place in the urethra. simply because you have sex with an HIV positive person does not mean that you will absolutely catch HIV. there's a good chance you will, but infection requires more than simple exposure. the reason why HIV is transmitted so easily from man to woman or man to man is because the semen is literally injected into the anus or vagina, and usually stays there for a while, all warm.

as for my own thoughts on circumcision ... well, let's put it this way, i've spent lots of times in locker rooms being a competitive swimmer, and those who are not circumcised (at least in the US) definitely tend to stand out from the others. it might cause one to be self-conscious? i can't speak from experience. from a sexual standpoint, i have had, um, experience with the uncircumcised, and so long as it is kept squeaky clean, it does seem to provide better sexual function.

i would probably choose not to circumcise if i had to do it all over again, but it's not something i lose sleep over.
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Old 07-06-2005, 08:56 PM   #8
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Originally posted by cardosino


do you have kids ?

I do and I agree with Melon.

I would like to say more but its a bit too personal to talk about on a public forum so I'll leave it at that.
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Old 07-06-2005, 09:06 PM   #9
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I do not understand why this ritual continues today. I agree with melon, though not quite so intensely, lol, perhaps because I am not a man. I don't plan to have kids but if I did have a son I absolutely would not have him circumcised though I cannot judge parents who do because I am not in their shoes and it's really none of my business.

Personally, I enjoy the uncut penis.
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Old 07-06-2005, 09:54 PM   #10
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Originally posted by cardosino
do you have kids?
Your point? You want to pass on the mutilation to your children, because your parents did it to you too? The cycle of irrationality needs to be broken somewhere. That's what we tell African tribes that mutilate girls' genitals, and, even as we've seen with them, it's difficult to get people to wake up out of their stupor. Old habits die hard.

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Old 07-06-2005, 09:59 PM   #11
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In America, though, I still think it's considered really odd NOT to circumsize your kid, for a lot of people it is really ingrained into the culture (especially if you're Jewish, obviously. I once asked a very liberal Jewish friend if he was planning on circumsizing his sons, if he had any. His response went something like "Of course! Are you nuts?!") It'd be interesting to know the statistics on this, and whether or not they are going down any. And I will admit, until a few years ago I thought circumcision was something doctors did to every newborn boy. Just goes to show how much circumcision is still very much a part of our American culture.
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Old 07-06-2005, 10:02 PM   #12
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In America, though, I still think it's considered really odd NOT to circumsize your kid, for a lot of people it is really ingrained into the culture (especially if you're Jewish, obviously.)
Jews do have religious traditions, which I can respect. What puzzles me is why Christians do it, considering much of the New Testament is frankly preoccupied with the subject and St. Paul's rather persistent and strong language against circumcision. So much for Biblical fundamentalism.

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Old 07-06-2005, 10:08 PM   #13
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Originally posted by melon


Jews do have religious traditions, which I can respect. What puzzles me is why Christians do it, considering much of the New Testament is frankly preoccupied with the subject and St. Paul's rather persistent and strong language against circumcision. So much for Biblical fundamentalism.

Melon
Non-Jews started the practice, generally, in the early half of the twentieth century after seeing it done by the many Jewish Americans who came to the country during that time (I think). I am under the impression that Non-Jews didn't circumcise for religious reasons, but for reasons of cleanliness. Then again, I'm not an expert on the history of circumcision, so I could be wrong.
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Old 07-06-2005, 10:19 PM   #14
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Originally posted by Lemonfix
Non-Jews started the practice, generally, in the early half of the twentieth century after seeing it done by the many Jewish Americans who came to the country during that time (I think). I am under the impression that Non-Jews didn't circumcise for religious reasons, but for reasons of cleanliness. Then again, I'm not an expert on the history of circumcision, so I could be wrong.
From what I've surmised, the "cleanliness" idea was an afterthought developed in the 20th century to justify it after the fact. It was actually developed in the 19th century under a zealous Christian climate obsessed with what they perceived as the "dangers of masturbation." After all, these were the days that they believed that it was not only a sin, but that it caused blindness and other maladies.

Where corn flakes and Graham crackers failed to cause impotence, as they were originally designed to do (although feed yourself enough sugar, develop diabetes, and you'll stop wanting to have sex), they discovered that what I call the "slash-and-burn" method of circumcision was highly effective in reducing sexual sensitivity. That's why it was developed and for no other reason than that.

The original ritual of circumcision, as described in the Bible, involved only a slight cut in the foreskin. That is, the Greco-Roman ideal pictures a massive foreskin that stretched well past the head of the penis, whereas the Jewish custom was to cut off the "overhead," not the entire foreskin as Americans do now. That was an entirely 19th century creation.

I am a bit passionate about this subject solely because I perceive it to be wholly irrational and based in pseudoscience and subjective "ick" factors that won't stretch over onto later generations. After all, the practice is rare in Europe (I've been told) and you don't hear of women screaming with "ick."

As I see it, if you're born with it, it apparently serves a function and it is arrogant of man to start cutting things off it presumes it doesn't need--especially when it comes to babies who frankly don't have a say in the matter.

Melon
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Old 07-06-2005, 10:51 PM   #15
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You obviously know more than I. It is quite interesting, the history of how this came to be part of American culture. I'm a bit of a cultural-history junkie so I find this all especially fascinating. I was aware of the ultra-conservative Victorian attitudes on sex and masturbation especially and Dr. Kellogg's attempt to curb the sexual urge with the right health regimin. I should have guessed that the practice of circumcision came out of this climate.
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