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Old 07-24-2004, 04:08 PM   #16
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Originally posted by paxetaurora
Yes, but Melon, that is not the reason circumcision is performed today, whereas the rationales (if you can call them that) that dandy mentioned are in fact the same reasons FGM continues. I'm all for ending unnecessary medical procedures, but to compare male circumcision--which is typically done under sterile medical conditions, unless you're talking about religious circumcisions--to FGM, which is typically performed under filthy conditions and can be lethal and disfiguring, is stretching it a little too far.
Speaking of "rationales," would "female circumcision" be okay if done in "sterile medical conditions"? I say this, because this is a debate in anthropology currently, where their goal is to just observe cultures without working to change them, no matter what they do. Some anthropologists do disagree with this "rationale," and some have actively worked to end the practice, while others have provided those "sterile medical conditions" of which you speak to prevent the infections that often result otherwise. So does this make it okay?

As someone who has studied anthropology and read up on the philosophy behind the debate, I have come to the conclusion that it is a tradition not worth continuing, no matter the "rationale." Thus, such "enlightened" cultures as ours (sarcasm intended, of course) should work to be above such "savagery" of all forms, including our own form of "permissable savagery" as male circumcision. After all, shouldn't we be setting the example? Just because male circumcision seems "ordinary" to us does not make it okay, and these African tribes that still continue female circumcision aren't dumb. When anthropologists have said to tribal leaders that the practice is damaging and should be stopped, some fully know that male circumcision is readily practiced in the United States and point out our hypocrisy with glee.

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Old 07-24-2004, 04:14 PM   #17
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I see what you're saying, but I still don't think the two are analogous. A man can still have a perfectly healthy and fulfilling sex life if he's circumcised (just ask my fiance), but a woman's sexual enjoyment is pretty much over when she is "circumcised"--if it ever had a chance to begin.

I'm not pro-male circumcision; to be perfectly honest, being a non-Jewish woman not planning on having children, it's something I absolutely never thought about. Surely there are a lot of good reasons to stop doing it. I'm just saying I think it's a false comparison to compare it with FGM, that's all.
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Old 07-24-2004, 04:22 PM   #18
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Old 07-24-2004, 04:33 PM   #19
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i also agree that you can not compare the two. this was a big discussion when my step daughter was pregnant with her son and since the state insurance does not pay for circumcision, she had to decide what to do. all the issues came up about cleanliness, being like daddy, and letting it be the boy's choice when he gets older. ultimately they did circumsize him and she had to pay for it.

i know this is not the same, but i also feel the same way about parents that pierce their daughter's ears as infants just so they look like little girls. my sister and i did not get pierced as children and we made the choice on our own as adults. but if we are talking about pain being pain, the child does feel pain, whether its circumcision or piercing of the ears.

my ex boss had two adopted sons that he decided to have circumsized when they were 11 and 12! how traumatic is that?
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Old 07-24-2004, 04:47 PM   #20
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I'm glad someone else mentioned ear-piercing b/c I know TONS of girls who had it done while they were still in the hospital for being born so should that be banned too?

Every boy and man I know are circumcized and none have ever complained of any negative effects. They can all get erections, have sasitfying sex, climax, etc. Female genital mutiliation is more along the lines of being castrated.

I'll have my future son(s) circumcised I guess for traditional reasons if religion doesn't count here (again). I don't see any reason not to.

Just for kicks, I asked my bf if he'd rather be circumcised or not and he said "Circumcized - I don't like the big flappy thing"
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Old 07-24-2004, 05:03 PM   #21
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(What the hell's the point of writing anything in this thread? Clearly, there isn't one, so rather than have my posts contorted as a "personal attack," I've thus removed it.)

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Old 07-24-2004, 05:09 PM   #22
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Melon, that's enough.

We've all read your arguments, and the fact that we simply do not agree does not mean that you are talking to a brick wall. I do not believe I have the sort of myopia to which you here refer, and I'm not sure the people who also disagree with you here do either. If I've said it once, I've said it a thousand times: DO NOT resort to personal attacks in FYM. Period.

This thread is over, I suspect, but I'll leave it open on the off chance that we can return to a civilized discussion about the merits, or lack thereof, of male circumcision.
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Old 07-24-2004, 05:39 PM   #23
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My son is circumcized, as I am Jewish and have planned to raise my son in the faith, even though somewhat loosely. My husband is not Jewish, and he is circumcized as well (because back then circumcision was pushed in hospitals on the grounds that it promotes cleanliness in the area + his father was, and his father before him, and so on and so forth) I am sorry, but I get the feeling here that I must be some evil woman for "injuring" or disfiguring my son with this outdated tradition.

I can understand why people feel circumcision is not a necessary option and there are many doctors (like my stand-in doctor at the hospital after my son was born) who flat out refuse to do the procedure no matter what the reasons are - spiritual or otherwise.

Still though, to be accused of mutilating my son for outdated, selfish faith based reasons doesn't sit well with me. And I'm with pax when she says that female circumcision and male circumcision are false comparisons... she summed up my feeilngs so there's no need to get any wordier than I already have.
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Old 07-24-2004, 05:40 PM   #24
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(Nevermind...it's not worth it.)

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Old 07-24-2004, 05:41 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon
Funny...sometimes I feel like I'm just talking to a brick wall, but I guess I'd like to hope that people can, at least, understand where everything comes from, but I guess I cannot change human tendencies to look at everything "foreign" suspiciously, but look at "domestic" idiosyncrasies as "normal."
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Old 07-24-2004, 05:42 PM   #26
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You edited too late.

But your compliments have been duly noted!
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