Circumcision could save your life

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gherman

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A new breakthough study shows that being circumcized can lower you chance of contracting of contracting HIV by greater than 50%. This could be huge in Africa and the rest of the world.

WASHINGTON - Circumcising adult men may cut in half their risk of getting the AIDS virus through heterosexual intercourse, the U.S. government announced Wednesday, as it shut down two studies in Africa testing the link.

The National Institutes of Health closed the studies in Kenya and Uganda early, when safety monitors took a look at initial results this week and spotted the protection. The studies' uncircumcised men are being offered the chance to undergo the procedure.

The link between male circumcision and HIV prevention was noted as long ago as the late 1980s. The first major clinical trial, of 3,000 men in South Africa, found last year that circumcision cut the HIV risk by 60 percent.

Still, many AIDS specialists had been awaiting the NIH's results as a final confirmation.

"Male circumcision can lower both an individual's risk of infection, and hopefully the rate of HIV spread through the community," said AIDS expert Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the NIH's National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases.

But it's not perfect protection, Fauci stressed. Men who become circumcised must not quit using condoms nor take other risks - and circumcision offers no protection from HIV acquired through anal sex or injection drug use, he noted.

"It's not a magic bullet, but a potentially important intervention," agreed Dr. Kevin De Cock of the World Health Organization.

Male circumcision is common at birth in the United States. But in sub-Saharan Africa, home to more than half of the world's almost 40 million HIV-infected people, there are large swaths of populations where male circumcision is rare.

The WHO plans an international meeting early next year to discuss the studies' results and how to translate them into policies that promote safe male circumcision - done by trained health workers with sterile equipment - while teaching men that it won't make them invulnerable.

Why would male circumcision play a role? Cells in the foreskin of the penis are particularly susceptible to the HIV virus, Fauci explained. Also, the foreskin is more fragile than the tougher skin surrounding it, providing a surface that the virus could penetrate more easily.

Researchers enrolled 2,784 HIV-negative men in Kisumu, Kenya, and 4,996 HIV-negative men in Rakai, Uganda, into the studies. Some were circumcised; others were just monitored.

Over two years, 22 of the circumcised Kenyans became infected with HIV compared with 47 uncircumcised men, a 53 percent reduction. In Uganda, 22 circumcised men became infected vs. 43 of the uncircumcised, a 48 percent reduction.

The researchers are offering all of the studies' uncircumcised men the chance to undergo the procedure, and 80 percent of the uncircumcised Ugandans already have agreed, said lead researcher Ronald Gray of Johns Hopkins University.

Side effects were rare, including some mostly mild infections that were easily treated. The rate of side effects was comparable to those seen in circumcised U.S. infants, said Robert Bailey of the University of Illinois at Chicago, who led the Kenyan trial.
 
I'm not sure how I feel about this.

One the one hand, I say circumcision is mutilation - the removal from the body of perfectly healthy tissue for very little medical purpose.

On the other hand, if it actually could reduce the incidence of AIDS, it might be worth investigating further.

:shrug:
 
the reason why it helps prevent the transmission of HIV from female-to-male is because vaginal secretions are less likely to get trapped in the urethra after intercourse and because the uncircumsized head of a penis is much, much more delicate, and thus more likely to tear, than a desensitized circumsized head.

it makes lots of sense.

but if one wears a condom, it won't make a difference at all, and there's no question that circumcision reduces a man's sexual pleasure and is a form of mutilation and has it's roots in Victorian notions of sexuality where masturbation had to be discouraged.
 
Irvine511 said:
but if one wears a condom, it won't make a difference at all

We have a winner!

We're perfectly willing to mutilate our own children, but the idea that they might have sex before they get married is the horrifying theory.

Christ, this world is fucked up. :banghead:
 
Irvine511 said:
the reason why it helps prevent the transmission of HIV from female-to-male is because vaginal secretions are less likely to get trapped in the urethra after intercourse and because the uncircumsized head of a penis is much, much more delicate, and thus more likely to tear, than a desensitized circumsized head.

it makes lots of sense.

but if one wears a condom, it won't make a difference at all, and there's no question that circumcision reduces a man's sexual pleasure and is a form of mutilation and has it's roots in Victorian notions of sexuality where masturbation had to be discouraged.

Umm.. i dont mind having been circumcised. :huh:
 
Originally posted by all_i_want
Umm.. i dont mind having been circumcised. :huh:

I bet you sure did when you were having it done.

Originally posted by diamond
i did not realized i was desensitized down there.

:angry:

dbs

Well, you are. Simple scientific fact. You've got nothing else to compare the feeling to (unless you had it done as an adult), so "desensitized" is a relative term.
 
all_i_want said:


Umm.. i dont mind having been circumcised. :huh:



spend some, um, time with an uncircumsized man.

there is a difference.

:sexywink:

(and, scientificallly, the male foreskin is filled with nerve endings and it's job is to protect the head of the penis; uncircumsized heads of penises are much, much more sensitive than circumsized heads which have spent a lifetime chafing against underware)

(it's fun to write about penises)
 
I'm glad this isn't an issue for me, being a woman and all, because if my parents had cut off some very valuable nerve endings when I had no say in it....I would be pissed. :madspit:
 
DaveC said:

We're perfectly willing to mutilate our own children, but the idea that they might have sex before they get married is the horrifying theory.

Christ, this world is fucked up. :banghead:

But we are talking about Africa, not "our children." The reality of the matter is that condoms aren't readily available and on the other hand, they are not really affordable, and on the yet other hand, infrastructure in Africa isn't such where you can ensure condoms will be distributed.

So it's a completely different context we're looking at here.

has it's roots in Victorian notions of sexuality where masturbation had to be discouraged.

Except that it's a couple of thousand years older than that (at least).
 
anitram said:

Except that it's a couple of thousand years older than that (at least).


in a Western/North American context, circumcision was encouraged to discourage masturbation.

amongst, say, people thousands of years ago, it was for cleanliness -- urinary tract infections are a bitch.
 
Ah yes. The semi-annual "Circumcision cures everything" thread. I figure I'll crack out some reading material this time, instead of repeating myself:

http://www.salon.com/mwt/feature/1998/10/26feature.html

Research into circumcision's history suggests that it dates back to around 3000 B.C., when it was performed in ancient Egypt as a mark of slavery and as a religious rite. Aside from Jews and Muslims, however, people considered circumcision to be a repugnant form of genital mutilation, and both the Greeks and Romans passed laws forbidding its practice. Thus, for a few millennia at least, most men worldwide enjoyed the virtues of an intact penis. In fact, routine circumcision didn't take off in America until the Victorian era, and didn't reach cruising altitude until the Cold War years, when technology, medicine and big business came together in the interest of institutionalized birthing.

The systematic removal of the foreskin owes its ubiquity in America to one man named Dr. Lewis Sayre, once known as the "Columbus of the prepuce" by his colleagues. In 1870, Sayre drew a correlation between the foreskin and an orthopedic malady in a young boy. Through a series of bizarre medical experiments, Sayre and his colleagues eventually determined that links existed between the foreskin and a vast range of ailments that included gout, asthma, hernias, epilepsy, rheumatism, curvature of the spine, tuberculosis and elephantiasis. But what drove circumcision deeper into the bedrock of pediatric medicine was the strident belief that masturbation, thought to be the root of everything from bed-wetting to intractable forms of insanity and mental retardation, could be "cured" with circumcision.

Dr. Peter Charles Remondino, a well-known physician, public health official and champion of universal circumcision, typified the Zeitgeist. Remondino wrote that the foreskin, which he referred to as an "unyielding tube" and "a superfluity," made the intact male "a victim to all manner of ills, sufferings ... and other conditions calculated to weaken him physically, mentally, and morally; to land him, perchance, in jail, or even in a lunatic asylum."

Dr. John Harvey Kellogg, a well-known fundamentalist health reformer and medical journalist (his 1888 "Plain Facts for Old and Young" included roughly 100 pages dedicated to "Secret Vice [Solitary or Self Abuse]") who went on to create the world's preeminent corn flake, was more direct in his approach. "A remedy for masturbation which is almost always successful in small boys is circumcision," he wrote. "The operation should be performed by a surgeon without administering an anesthetic, as the brief pain attending the operation will have a salutary effect upon the mind, especially if it be connected with the idea of punishment. In females, the author has found the application of pure carbolic acid to the clitoris an excellent means of allaying the abnormal excitement."

As astonishing as it may seem, Kellogg's views were shared by most prominent practitioners of the time. In Robert Tooke's popular book "All About the Baby," published in 1896, circumcision is recommended for preventing "the vile habit of masturbation." And Dr. Mary Melendy, author of "For Maidens, Wives and Mothers," wrote that masturbation "lays the foundation for consumption, paralysis and heart disease ... It even makes many lose their minds; others, when grown, commit suicide." Appealing to parents who might question the protracted afflictions associated with masturbation, Melendy warned, "Don't think it does no harm to your boy because he does not suffer now, for the effects of this vice come on so slowly that the victim is often very near death before you realize that he has done himself harm."

Circumcision was not only bound up with deeply irrational fears about masturbation at the turn of the century; it was also tied to sociocultural changes as vast waves of immigration flooded American cities. Circumcision became a mark of social class that distinguished gentrified, "real" Americans from the "insalubrious" immigrant masses at a time when cleanliness was synonymous with godliness. Eventually, circumcision staked its claim on the American male and his problematic penis, and became so accepted as the norm that by the early 1900s standard medical textbooks depicted the normal penis without its foreskin. In this highly charged atmosphere, American parents who chose not to circumcise their sons were almost criminally negligent, if not freakishly nonconformist.

An irrational practice based on pseudoscience and fear? Only in America.
 
people are using the word mutilation like its a dirty word. This is medical not horror.
 
vaz02 said:
people are using the word mutilation like its a dirty word. This is medical not horror.

Perhaps for parents who don't watch a circumcision (the majority don't; the minority that do wish they hadn't), the reality here -- the strapping, forcing, cutting, bleeding, stripping, slicing and creating of immeasurable pain -- is a little like the Bomb: something you'd rather not think about unless you absolutely, positively must.

Whatever you say.
 
Perhaps for parents who don't watch a circumcision (the majority don't; the minority that do wish they hadn't), the reality here -- the strapping, forcing, cutting, bleeding, stripping, slicing and creating of immeasurable pain -- is a little like the Bomb: something you'd rather not think about unless you absolutely, positively must.

Dont watch it then , simple.
If people and doctors thought the procedure was inhuman it would be banned.

Me and my brother have been Circumcision and my mom and dad dont regret it.
 
vaz02 said:
Dont watch it then , simple.
If people and doctors thought the procedure was inhuman it would be banned.

Right. Just like if tobacco could kill you, it would be banned, right?

Me and my brother have been Circumcision and my mom and dad dont regret it.

I like your choice of words. "My mom and dad." And, yet, they have the right to perform a medically unnecessary procedure on a person who cannot consent (i.e., you and your brother).

In some isolated instances, circumcisions have been botched to the point that the entire glans ("head") has been removed, thus making sexual pleasure impossible. After all, an infant penis is extremely tiny.

I'm sure that your parents would regret it then--but it would be too late, by then. "Oops."

If adults wish to be circumcised, let them, just like they can get their tongue split into two if they're crazy. But leave the children out of it.
 
randhail said:
How many people recall the pain of their circumcision as newborns?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circumcision

An article discussed the extent to which circumcision may cause emotional harm to males. Some organizations have been founded as support groups for circumcised men who are upset with their status. Several studies suggest that circumcised infants do not forget the pain during circumcision easily, as a correlation between circumcision with ineffective anaesthesia and intensity of pain response during vaccination months later has been noted.

The same kind of arguments in favor of male circumcision are the exact kind of arguments I'd expect from African tribes who fervently believe in female genital mutilation (FGM). That's what I find quite amusing.

There's no medical reason for it, as the official stance of the American Medical Association states, and the fact that an unnecessary mutilating procedure is performed on anyone without their consent (babies) is repugnant.

But, if anything, I'm reminded of why eliminating FGM in Africa will be difficult to impossible, because trying to get many Americans to stop circumcision (or, as it should be called, "MGM"), is pretty difficult to impossible. You can't underestimate the power of tradition!
 
Dont relate Tobacco to this subject , you cant compare the both.

like your choice of words. "My mom and dad." And, yet, they have the right to perform a medically unnecessary procedure on a person who cannot consent (i.e., you and your brother).

Doctors perform these procedures, not parents. Well here in the UK anyway.
 
vaz02 said:
Dont relate Tobacco to this subject , you cant compare the both.

The comparison is apt, in that tradition frequently trumps reason.

Doctors perform these procedures, not parents. Well here in the UK anyway.

I meant "doctors," as well. I cannot justify any unnecessary procedure on those who cannot consent. Period.
 
vaz02 said:

Cute. FYM is not a research paper.

You might find this interesting too:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4530930.stm

The British journal Nature examined a range of scientific entries on both works of reference and found few differences in accuracy.

...

The reviewers were asked to check for errors, but were not told about the source of the information.

"Only eight serious errors, such as misinterpretations of important concepts, were detected in the pairs of articles reviewed, four from each encyclopedia," reported Nature.

"But reviewers also found many factual errors, omissions or misleading statements: 162 and 123 in Wikipedia and Britannica, respectively."

So there goes that argument.

I also happen to know someone who not only hates the fact that he was circumcised, but is working to have it restored. And, yes, as he can attest, merely covering the glans makes it more sensitive and pleasurable during sex. However, as circumcision destroys many nerve endings, there's many sensations that you cannot restore.
 
Ormus said:


There's no medical reason for it, as the official stance of the American Medical Association states, and the fact that an unnecessary mutilating procedure is performed on anyone without their consent (babies) is repugnant.


That's not an entirely accurate statement about the AMA:

2. The AMA supports the general principles of the 1999 Circumcision Policy Statement of the American Academy of Pediatrics, which reads as follows: Existing scientific evidence demonstrates potential medical benefits of newborn male circumcision; however, these data are not sufficient to recommend routine neonatal circumcision. In circumstances in which there are potential benefits and risks, yet the procedure is not essential to the child's current well-being, parents should determine what is in the best interest of the child. To make an informed choice, parents of all male infants should be given accurate and unbiased information and be provided the opportunity to discuss this decision. If a decision for circumcision is made, procedural analgesia should be provided.

http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/category/13585.html
 
DaveC said:


I bet you sure did when you were having it done.



Well, you are. Simple scientific fact. You've got nothing else to compare the feeling to (unless you had it done as an adult), so "desensitized" is a relative term.

I actually prefer it, chose it later in life, enjoy sex all the more for it as does my SO

Not one iota of guilt in having it done to my boys
 
toscano said:
I actually prefer it, chose it later in life, enjoy sex all the more for it as does my SO

And that is your right as an adult. Enjoy.

Not one iota of guilt in having it done to my boys

That is what I cannot accept from an ethical standpoint. You've taken away their ability to make a choice as to whether they'd want it or not. And once the decision has been made for you, there's really no going back.
 
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