"Christmas" or "Holiday"? : 5 Scenarios

[yolland]

I've tried to make these as realistic as possible, but I have no direct experience with any of these situations, so please excuse any wildly unrealistic elements I may have included.

I am curious to see what FYMers would actually do in concrete situations, when the issue is brought out of the epic-battle-for-the-future-of-our-culture stratosphere.


1) You're a public elementary school teacher planning your annual ____ classroom party, including a note to be sent to parents briefly describing your plans and requesting volunteers. You know two of your students celebrate Chanukah, while one celebrates Kwanzaa; you're *pretty* sure all the rest celebrate Christmas. But, there's only time and money for one party, so do you:
a) describe it as a "Christmas" party and have only a tree, Santa decorations, etc.
b)describe it as a "Holiday" party and have symbols present from all three traditions.
c)describe it as a "Christmas/Chanukah/Kwanzaa" party and have symbols present from all three traditions.
d)describe it as a "Holiday" party and have only completely non-religion-associated decorations, such as snowflakes.
e)opt to skip the party altogether.

2)You're the Christian owner of a software company in an urban area with a large Muslim population. Recently, you've hired two Muslim employees. In previous years, you've written Christmas cards to all your employees, the rest of whom celebrate Christmas. You happen to know the major Muslim holiday, Eid al-Fitr, won't fall in December this year, but in early November. So this year, do you:
a)send out only "Christmas" cards to all employees, as before.
b)send out only "Holiday" cards, to all employees.
c)send "Eid" cards to your Muslim employees at Eid, and "Christmas" cards to the others at Christmas.
d)send "Eid" cards to your Muslim employees at Eid, and "Christmas" cards to all employees at Christmas.
e)send "Eid" cards to your Muslim employees at Eid, and "Holiday" cards to everyone at Christmas.
f)opt to send no cards to anyone.

3)You're in charge of ordering and mailing out ____ cards to the faculty and staff of a large public university. They come from various religious backgrounds, but you don't know precisely who falls into what category, nor is there any legal way to ascertain that. So, do you:
a)order and send only "Christmas" cards.
b)order and send only "Holiday" cards.
c)opt to suspend the program altogether.

4)You're the events coordinator of a large shopping mall in a culturally diverse urban area. For Black Friday, you're planning a children's event where kids can color and help hang their own paper ornament on your _____ tree. When it comes to wording the posters advertising this event, do you refer to it as:
a)our Christmas tree
b)our Holiday tree
c)...or do you avoid the issue by not advertising the event.

5)You're the first Jewish President of the United States, and the time has come to send out your first 700,000+ mass mailing of ____ cards. Obviously, you have no way of knowing which holiday traditions are observed by each individual recipient, so will you:
a)send out only "Christmas" cards.
b)send out only "Chanukah" cards.
c)send out only "Holiday" cards.
d)opt not to send any cards.

6) Brief comment qualifying any of your answers above, or responding to another poster's comment.

 

[yolland]

1) c
2) d
3) b
4) a
5) c
6)

 

[anitram]

1) b
2) b
3) b
4) a
5) c

6) For 1 I answered b, but to me, there is no real difference between b and c. I guess laziness won out. For 2, I was trying to decide between b and d, but ultimately, I thought, well then what, send Easter cards to all the Christians at Easter as well (certainly it's the most important holiday to a Christian, religiously speaking anyway) because you're sending Eid cards out? It feels counterintuitive to me, so I say send out Holiday cards with their annual bonus, and wish them all a prosperous New Year.

 

[indra]

I'd probably opt "not to" in all cases.

Because I'm a cranky bitch. That's why.




Actually for the mall one (# 4) I'd just call it our tree and let people call it whatever they want to. Make 'em use their imagination. Why should I have to spell it out for 'em?

 

[XHendrix24]

1)d
2)b
3)b
4)a
5)c
6)

 

[yolland]

For 2, I was trying to decide between b and d, but ultimately, I thought, well then what, send Easter cards to all the Christians at Easter as well (certainly it's the most important holiday to a Christian, religiously speaking anyway) because you're sending Eid cards out?

I anticipated this one might create some confusion. I chose Eid because it *often* falls within the late-Nov.-to-early-Jan. "holiday season," not because of its religious significance per se (though I am told it's the holiday on which Muslims are most likely to send cards to one another). However, in checking the Islamic calendar for 2005, I was reminded that Eid indeed fell outside the "holiday season" this year, which I thought might make for an interesting twist, so I worked that in.

I do not know why Eid jumps around so much more than Chanukah, chronologically speaking. Chanukah always starts on 25 Kislev (in the Jewish calendar), which always falls in December. Perhaps someone more knowledgeable about the Islamic calendar could explain?

 

[Maggie1]

1. D
2. C
3. B
4. A
5. C

6. In regards to #4, I would refer to the tree as a Christmas Tree because the other holidays don't have a tree so what else could it be?

 

[melon]

1) B or C, but I'd probably have consulted my legal counsel first to see which one is acceptable. I have no problems with "C," personally, but I'd have to frame it from an educational POV, rather than basing the party solely on the religious traditions of the specific students.

2) B, because I'm unsure of the traditions of "Eid ul-Fitr" even involve cards, and I still wouldn't want to leave anyone out.

3) B. Absolutely no question about it.

4) A. Despite my rather vocal objections to people making a big fuss out of this, I would call it a "Christmas tree," because that's the tradition where it comes from.

5) C. Again, no question about it.

Melon

 

[melon]

I do not know why Eid jumps around so much more than Chanukah, chronologically speaking. Chanukah always starts on 25 Kislev (in the Jewish calendar), which always falls in December. Perhaps someone more knowledgeable about the Islamic calendar could explain?

The Islamic calendar is 12 lunar months or 354 days. The Koran, as well, forbids "leap days," so there's absolutely nothing that can be done to stop the 11 day slide every year. So that means that, theoretically, "Eid ul-Fitr" could be in June some year on our calendar, while always being on the same month and date in the Islamic calendar.

Melon

 

[VertigoGal]

1. b- "holiday" is easier to say than the other. I probably would not include Kwanzaa unless I knew a child in my class celebrated, in which case it would only be a small effort to include the kid.

2. d- If I knew they were the only non-Christians, I would send them a card for their holiday and just do Christmas in December. Not sure on this one though...

3. b

4. a

5. c

Don't think the last 3 need much explaining

 

[the rockin edge]

1. c
2. d
3. b
4. a
5. c

 

[nbcrusader]

1) a or c
2) a
3) c
4) a
5) any

6) The question contains one false dilemma. A party with a tree and Santa, called a Christmas party, is secular. It is part of the local tradition and is celebrated by up to 90% of the country (where the percentage of Christians in this country is far lower). If the school was to throw a party, I would expect some educational aspect to it. Learning about the varied cultural differences of secular Christmas around the world would be just as important as understanding Chanukah and Kwanza. Actually, I don't know how to teach Chanukah without a religious message, and it would be perfectly fine with me.

As for the office Christmas cards, I think it would be disingenuous of me to send an Eid card. But I would be more than delighted to receive an Eid card from my Muslim employee.

Regarding the public university, what is the point of sending out the cards? Besides, tuition is high enough.

The shopping mall example follows the school example. It is a secular symbol, so calling it a "holiday" tree doesn't really accomplish anything.

 

[deep]

1) c
2) d
3) b
4) a
5) c
6)

hi yolland,

since you started this thread

(for discussion purposes)

I will grade your quiz

1) c is acceptable, but not the best answer. Is it really possible to know all the backgrounds of the students. What if next year there is a wiccan, Hindu, and Buddhist child added to the mix.

b is the best answer
and do not go overboard worrying about symbols
just tell the students that there are many different beliefs.


2) c may seem most correct but assumes one is able to know everyones beliefs and practices.

b is the best answer, Muslims and any other adherents to belief systems will take them with the goodwill they are intended.

3) b
4) a
5) c

are all the best
and most correct answers.

 

[deep]

As for the office Christmas cards, I think it would be disingenuous of me to send an Eid card. But I would be more than delighted to receive an Eid card from my Muslim employee.

Could you not sincerely send and wish a "Happy Holiday Season"?

Interesting to know that a Muslin card would delight you

when we have a large portion of the country throwing shitfits about receiving "Holiday Greetings"

 

[nbcrusader]

when we have a large portion of the country throwing shitfits about receiving "Holiday Greetings"

And a small portion of the country throwing "shitfits" about sending "Christmas Greetings".

 

[AchtungBono]

For the life of me, I just can't understand why people are so desperate to wipe out christmas.

I'm Jewish and obviously don't celebrate christmas, but if I were living in the USA I would very willingly join in the festivities vis-a-vis parties, decorations, and wishing "Merry Christmas". I wouldn't force anyone to negate their own holiday just to give me a false sense of equality.

I LOVE the fact that people of different faiths celebrate different holidays - I would hate to have one generic bland "holiday" which negates the uniqueness of each faith.

 

[thrillme]

Could you not sincerely send and wish a "Happy Holiday Season"?

Interesting to know that a Muslin card would delight you

when we have a large portion of the country throwing shitfits about receiving "Holiday Greetings"

Well I've an Irish friend, talk to him alot, as a person living in America, yeah holiday greetings is okay, but I wouldn't send one to my Irish friend.

Vacation Greetings?

Holidays=Vacation where he lives.

 

[MsGiggles]

I've seen holiday cards that included the peace dove with the various country flags surrounding it....it's very nice and tasteful enough to give to any employee or friend regardless of their religious beliefs.

I've never heard anyone have a shitfit regarding what a card says or doesn't say - I think most people are just happy to get mail that doesn't include the words "you owe"......

 

[najeena]

Has anyone else bought the lovely blue and gold Eid holiday stamps from the post office? My mother-in-law sent me an offensive email suggesting that they be boycotted. You can be sure her card will this year will bear one, as will all the others I send out.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

1. B... it is a party celebrating all holidays, so all decorations should be included, leaving no one out.
2. C
3. B... i always say to people "happy holidays" unless i know for certain which holiday they celebrate. who am i to assume they celebrate one or the other? hard core right wingers who have a problem with this can bite me.
4. A... it's a fucking christmas tree. should we start calling it a holiday minorah? of course not.
5. C... see the answer to #3 for explanation.
6. this entire argument shows the absolute stupidity of both the far left and the far right. they're both friggin wrong. there is nothing wrong with a mall putting up a sign that says happy holidays in order to be all inclusive to whomever uses the mall to shop, but at the same time, it's a fucking christmas tree and should not be called anything else. if someone wants to put up a nativity scene? a christmas tree? a giant minorah? play christmas songs? haunakah songs? go nuts...

listening to people argue this issue is making me dumber by the second.

 

[yolland]

this entire argument shows the absolute stupidity of both the far left and the far right. they're both friggin wrong. there is nothing wrong with a mall putting up a sign that says happy holidays in order to be all inclusive to whomever uses the mall to shop, but at the same time, it's a fucking christmas tree and should not be called anything else. if someone wants to put up a nativity scene? a christmas tree? a giant minorah? play christmas songs? haunakah songs? go nuts...

listening to people argue this issue is making me dumber by the second.

I agree with you and, like a lot of us I suppose, am inclined to the self-flattering view that I was very reasonable and easygoing about all this until someone decided to make it an issue. I am all for unabashed displays of holiday regalia of all kinds and, in fact, am looking forward to a Christmas carols concert I plan to attend on campus later today. But as someone who doesn't celebrate Christmas, I find it very distressing that there are clearly a significant number of people who think saying "Happy Holidays" to strangers and casual acquaintances, or having an inclusive party with multiple traditions in evidence, is "spineless" or "kowtowing" or most insultingly of all, "unpatriotic."

I think part of the reason why this issue is so bizarrely volcanic is that it conflates two issues that are already hot buttons in their own right: the public status of religion, on the one hand, and the extent to which cultural minorities deserve representation within the mainstream, on the other.

Originally posted by nbcrusader
The question contains one false dilemma. A party with a tree and Santa, called a Christmas party, is secular. It is part of the local tradition and is celebrated by up to 90% of the country (where the percentage of Christians in this country is far lower). If the school was to throw a party, I would expect some educational aspect to it. Learning about the varied cultural differences of secular Christmas around the world would be just as important as understanding Chanukah and Kwanza. Actually, I don't know how to teach Chanukah without a religious message, and it would be perfectly fine with me.

Hmmm, well, in the rather narrow sense in which I was considering it, it's not a false dilemma because I don't personally recognize Christmas, the manger version, and Christmas, the Santa version, as truly being two different holidays. On the other hand, you raise a good point that I was essentially conveniently sidestepping the religious dimensions issue. But as far as it goes it is perfectly possible to present Chanukah in a secular light, as it above all is commemorating the Maccabees' victory over the persecutory Syrian Greek occupiers. The miracle of the lamps burning for eight days isn't found in the Bible anyway; it's a Talmudic legend that came to define the holiday under postexilic conditions, in the context of rabbinic disapproval of the Maccabees (who weren't of the House of David, and therefore not qualified to reinstate the monarchy much less assume its mantle, as they did). So few consider the miracle to be historic, but it is a powerful allegory of the persistence of faith in the face of persecution.

Originally posted by deep
I will grade your quiz

And to think I just finished going over my course evaluation feedback for this semester, only to come here and find out my POSTS are being "graded" too!

Good points though.