Christmas Music!

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MadelynIris

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School's band to tune out Santa
Parents split on concert's tone


Don't expect the Columbia High School brass ensemble to belt out any jolly renditions of "Joy to World" at its holiday concert this year.

Nor will it play any songs about Santa Claus coming to town.

But there will be plenty of seasonal tunes, such as "Winter Wonderland" and "Frosty the Snowman" -- songs devoid of any reference to religion, religious symbols or holidays.

A long-standing policy banning the singing of Christmas songs with religious references in the South Orange/Maplewood School District has come under scrutiny after the administration clarified the policy recently, saying that it also includes instrumental concerts.

This means the 40-member brass ensemble, which in years past has played Christmas carols with references to Santa Claus, Jesus, or other religious symbols, will not be played this ye


---there's more, go read it----


My wife is a High School Choral Music teacher, and to this day her school has never done such a thing, and she is sooo greatful. She fears the day that this happens, because so much of the traditional, good literature has derived from the church, especially in choral music. Not just for Christmas mind you, but everything.

John Rutter for example, considered one of the best modern day choral composers, writes religious based music. He is the director of the choral program at Oxford. Likewise, most of classical music, yes, Mozart, Brahms, Beethoven, etc.. has a religious base.

I'll be very sad, if my kids grow up without this kind of music training.

What about you guys?
 
Without passing judgment on this decision right now, I'd just like to say that secular Christmas music sucks.

Except for "Do they know it's Christmas".

And Bono's hilarious caterwauling on "Christmas (Baby Please Come Home)".
 
MadelynIris said:
Don't expect the Columbia High School brass ensemble to belt out any jolly renditions of "Joy to World" at its holiday concert this year.

i think most english teachers would have a conyption if they heard a rendition of 'joy to world'.

:wink:
 
Interesting.

For the last few years, the Christmas concert at our local elementary school did not include any reference to Jesus or Christian reference to Christmas, but it did include a couple of Hannakah songs, including songs with biblical references.

Separation of Christ and State......
 
stories like this entertain me to some degree. it's CHRISTmas, isn't it? who decided that carols need to be censored? it's interesting how seemingly small issues like these get blasted into huge political statements, but people can't seem to mobilize for the real political crises--poverty, discrimination, education, health care...

perhaps the next politically correct fiasco will be the renaming of the massive commercial nightmare currently known as christmas.
 
What if you were the Jewish parents of a Jewish student in a band playing songs about Jesus? What if your Jewish son had to play trumpet on "Joy to the World, the Lord has come" but there was no Dreidel song? And what about all the Muslim kids -- are you going to include songs for them? I'm assuming South Orange is not some small town with no one but Christians in it. Put yourself in the shoes of a parent who is not Christian but has to have their son or daughter play Christian music then make a decision on this.
 
ok, i see what you're getting at, sharky, but i don't think anyone is *forcing* children of different religions to participate in christmas festivities. even in my tiny city back in the 80s, no one was forced to participate in christmas concerts if they didn't want to.

if there's a diverse community within the school, by all means, they should consider a multi-faith celebration that acknowledges and respects everyone's traditions.
 
actually, I'm assuming this is a music class, the kids have two choices: play the music or get an F. Do we really want to be encouraging students to drop out of music classes if they don't want to participate in Christmas songs?
 
i've re-read the article and we're veering off course here (myself included, apologies for that. my bad.) no one's forcing anyone to play anything against their religion in this case. it's a school band performing a concert for *the season*, but they won't include any songs that make reference to 'santa claus, jesus, or other religious symbols' (is santa claus a religious symbol? :hmm: ).
 
sharky said:
What if you were the Jewish parents of a Jewish student in a band playing songs about Jesus? What if your Jewish son had to play trumpet on "Joy to the World, the Lord has come" but there was no Dreidel song? And what about all the Muslim kids -- are you going to include songs for them? I'm assuming South Orange is not some small town with no one but Christians in it. Put yourself in the shoes of a parent who is not Christian but has to have their son or daughter play Christian music then make a decision on this.

Why do we always go the extreme of having all possible aspects of culture represented if any one aspect of culture is represented?

If kids were attending school in another part of the world, I doubt they would hold back on their own cultural references in order to represent all possible others.

And you can mention the birth of Jesus without it turning into prosteltyzing.
 
And Hanakkuh is the holiday celebrating the Jews. what's your point?

NBC- yes, this wouldn't be an issue in most other countries but that's because most other countries have a state-sponsored religion. We don't, which makes this country what it is.
 
its gotten to the point where i hate the materialism, the PCness and the sanitation of the holiday season. it's just too frustrating i try to just close my eyes and plug my ears unless i'm in church.
 
I hate all of the materialism and other stuff that goes on. The idea is to celebrate the birth of Jesus, not to make $$ from the crass "holiday season" insanity that's *entirely* secular.
 
sharky said:
NBC- yes, this wouldn't be an issue in most other countries but that's because most other countries have a state-sponsored religion. We don't, which makes this country what it is.

And singing Christmas carols does not constitute government established religion.
 
i think a little tact is all that's needed. i see no problem with, say, "jingle bells" or "have a holly jolly christmas" or santa claus-esqe songs, those are pretty secular and celebrate the holiday. "silent night" ("Christ the saviour is born") or "come all ye faithful" are overtly religious, and sound better in a church anyway. christmas can be celebrated in an entirely secular fashion, as my best friend who is Hindu did with her family for years. they do presents and trees and stockings and santa came to her house, but jesus never really entered the equation. and i thought that was very cool. i think school can be much the same way. recognize it as a cultural event that has religious roots, but the keep the celebration on the secular not the religious. much how everyone can have fun spinning a dreidle and eating delicious jewish food, but not have to worry about hebrew prayers.
 
Irvine511 said:
i think a little tact is all that's needed.

:up:

I work in a place where 95% of my co-workers are Jewish, and a good number are Orthodox. A couple of us play Christmas carols on the radio, nobody is offended and nobody cares - I think they're amused by us singing along - but we don't play "Noel, Noel, born is the King of Israel" because to me, that's just tacky given the surroundings.
 
Irvine511 said:
i haven't a clue, but i'm sure i can guess.
U are funny, Irvine! I didn't know what U would say, however, your reply was smart, warm and witty. I recall your posts on that recent Election Day proposition of the Gay marriage rights amendment thread with U stating that U are an intellectual Gay (sic), etc. Also, U humorously stated that Gays best know how to throw a wedding! I'm the non-intellectual type (I prefer that positioning) although I do have two or three wasted degrees from accredited universities. Have U seen the SVA weblink yet?

www.STONEWALLvets.org/songsofStonewall-5.htm

Bi the way, "Back Door Santa" is, besides the innuendo and implication, actually also a hot song by soul legend Clarence Carter, originally on an album entitled "Soul Christmas" (now available on c/d). "Back Door Santa" has since been re-done by rap group Run-DMC and also a white rock group -- maybe U-2 -- on one of those rock 'n' roll "A Very Special Christmas"albums!! :)
 
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I'm just so thankful I got to attend a private school and celebrate all Christmases without stupid controversies. I went to a CRC school and we celebrated ALL kinds of Christmas from various cultures and religions. We did stuff like making the dreidles and playing the games that went along with it and we learned about Christmas in Sweden, Christmas in the Netherlands, Africa, kids cooked different Christmas foods from all over the world, etc, etc, not JUST Christian Christmas. I feel bad for the kids in the public schools b/c now they can't celebrate ANY Christmas besides the one true FAKE Christmas which is the yearly climax of commercialization and materialism. You know what the saddest thing is? I bet little kids don't even CARE, they just want to sing songs and play games and have a good time whether they're pretending it's Hanukkah or Kwanza or whatever.
 
LivLuvAndBootlegMusic said:
You know what the saddest thing is? I bet little kids don't even CARE, they just want to sing songs and play games and have a good time whether they're pretending it's Hanukkah or Kwanza or whatever.


yes, exactly. what's the problem with that? why don't we put the religon aside (in public schools) and let the kids have fun with, and learn all about, various December celebrations without the school endorsing one particular tradition over another?
 
Irvine511 said:
christmas can be celebrated in an entirely secular fashion

Society has successfully secularized two of the larger Christian religious holidays (Christmas & Easter) that makes this statement true. I guess if we can erase why we celebrate the holiday in the first place, everyone can be happy.
 
it's american business -- like, say, Hallmark -- that have secularized these holidays. like it or not, they are now bigger and more inclusive than the celebration of Christ's birth or his crucifixion. it's less an erasure of the original reason, and an expansion of what they holidays can mean to different people. i don't see what's so bad about this -- i'm not jewish, but i've always enjoyed Passover meals. why not share?
 
Sharing is great. Why not share all of it.

We have participated in Hannakah, Passover and Purim celebrations. To me, understanding the religious roots make the celebrations more meaningful.
 
because we're talking about public schools. celebrate the "winter carnival" aspect of Christmas, and let the religious part be celebrated by christian families and their churches. if i were in a public school, and i were jewish or buddhist or muslim or atheist, i'd feel very, very awkward about being forced to sing "Christ the saviour is born" (or, if i refused, have to suffer feeling even more different from my peers). i wouldn't, however, have any problems with songs involving reindeer, sleighbells, presents, and santa. like i said, Santa can visit Hindu children, but Jesus (necessarily) doesn't become their saviour on the 25th of December.
 
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