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Old 11-30-2004, 07:29 PM   #121
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Originally posted by paxetaurora
The majority of classical music may not have had lyrics, but anything you *could* sing probably had religious lyrics.
Yes, I'll agree with this but the majority of classical pieces also have more than one alternative set of lyrics.
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Old 11-30-2004, 07:31 PM   #122
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it's all about choice. Hindus who want to be choir nerds know that they will probably encounter religious music in their after school clubs -- just like if they were to sing broadway songs, there might be offensive lyrics (stuff from Les Mis or whatever). the difference, here, is choice. you know this signing up, and you can drop the activity if you choose. what isn't okay, as i'll say again, is for a mandatory music class (maybe they don't have these anymore, but i had them in elementary school) to sing explicitly worshipful music.

that's all i have to say about that.

signing out of this tread. it has been fun.

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Old 11-30-2004, 07:32 PM   #123
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You've got to be kidding me, the majority of classical music never initially had lyrics. Look you are trying to stretch the argument. Yes a lot of music from this time period may have been inspired or started in the church, but it's exclusive.
Music history is one of those things we read about on the toilet in my house. I'm still not a pro musicologist, but I'm sure my wife could hold her own on a classical music category on Jeopardy.

Seriously, maybe it's time to abolish classical choral programs at public schools.
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Old 11-30-2004, 07:33 PM   #124
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uh, that should be thread.

bye!
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Old 11-30-2004, 08:02 PM   #125
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Quote:
Originally posted by MadelynIris


Music history is one of those things we read about on the toilet in my house. I'm still not a pro musicologist, but I'm sure my wife could hold her own on a classical music category on Jeopardy.

Seriously, maybe it's time to abolish classical choral programs at public schools.
There's a big difference in trying to get a Jewish, Hindu, Muslem, etc child celebrate Christmas and learning classical music.

Teaching classical music most of the time is about music theory, structure, etc. It's like learning history or math. In history we learned about other religions. Also you keep forgetting choir is an elective.

Look I know where you are getting at. The slope can be dangerous. I just don't see the need for insisting my child celebrate any religious holiday at school. They celebrate it at my home, my church, their grandparents home...that's where it should be celebrated anyways.
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Old 12-01-2004, 05:12 AM   #126
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I'm not hellbent on forcing anything on anyone

The nativity is never/never will be "commerce" to me, but it really doesn't bother me if people don't want it displayed in a public place, I understand that completely.

Sorry I'm so stupid
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Old 12-01-2004, 05:57 AM   #127
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Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen
I'm not hellbent on forcing anything on anyone

The nativity is never/never will be "commerce" to me, but it really doesn't bother me if people don't want it displayed in a public place, I understand that completely.

Sorry I'm so stupid
When I said commerce I meant that nativity scenes are not historically accurate, most theologians agree that the visitors (three wise men and shepards) were not there all at the same time and some didn't even arrive until years after the birth.

I find plastic internally lit wisemen to be tacky and just another way someone out there makes a buck. Maybe that's just me.
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Old 12-01-2004, 08:16 AM   #128
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
I know 1000s of churches across the nation that would disagree with you.
I think you would agree that worship comes from the heart, not from the mouth.

Kids singing traditional Christmas carols are not engaged in worship.
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Old 12-01-2004, 11:44 AM   #129
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Originally posted by nbcrusader


I think you would agree that worship comes from the heart, not from the mouth.

Kids singing traditional Christmas carols are not engaged in worship.
Ah, the thin line.

Yes I'll agree it comes from the heart, but then you can also say that 1000s of churches across the nation are no longer places of worship for they are only going through the motions of memorized lines.

But if they are just words...then you'll have no problem with your child reading or listening to literature or music that goes against what you believe.
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Old 12-01-2004, 01:41 PM   #130
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
Yes I'll agree it comes from the heart, but then you can also say that 1000s of churches across the nation are no longer places of worship for they are only going through the motions of memorized lines.
I would say that in nearly every church, there are people who are only going through the motions.

Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
But if they are just words...then you'll have no problem with your child reading or listening to literature or music that goes against what you believe.
This was one of the factors that led us to send our son to public school. We know he hears many things that are inconsistent with a Christ-centered world view. Those are teaching opportunities for us.
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Old 12-01-2004, 05:24 PM   #131
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I love nativity scenes. The first one was supposedly made by St. Francis of Assisi. Maybe they are not "historically accurate" but neither are some of the most powerful spiritual symbols on the planet. It's a matter of the heart, not something that's supposed to be "accurate". I'm a trained historian but sometimes this stuff is completely irrelevant.
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Old 12-02-2004, 06:41 AM   #132
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What ironic to me is that . . .

. . . there's a voice of people that want to take all Christian thought and influence out of the public forum.

. . . there's a voice of people that are complaining about how Christians are taking a stronger stand on politics and pushing for their religious causes.

Anyone see a connection? You can only antagonize a group of people for so long until they respond. If you're tired of Christian politics, fundamentalist groups, and the extreme right wing agenda, maybe you should take a step back and look at their perspective. You may be creating your own problem.
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Old 12-02-2004, 07:08 AM   #133
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Originally posted by stammer476
What ironic to me is that . . .

. . . there's a voice of people that want to take all Christian thought and influence out of the public forum.

. . . there's a voice of people that are complaining about how Christians are taking a stronger stand on politics and pushing for their religious causes.

Anyone see a connection? You can only antagonize a group of people for so long until they respond. If you're tired of Christian politics, fundamentalist groups, and the extreme right wing agenda, maybe you should take a step back and look at their perspective. You may be creating your own problem.
Um that can go the other way around too.
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Old 12-02-2004, 07:09 AM   #134
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Um that can go the other way around too.
Definately. And I think that is what's causing such a divide in this country. As long as both sides want to "stake their ground," the problems will continue.
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Old 12-02-2004, 07:11 AM   #135
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and, hence, we have separation of church and state. we keep the endorsement of jesus out of public schools and do things like moments of silence instead of teacher-led prayers.
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