Christmas Music!

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MadelynIris said:
Well, I am trying to get back to the original question.

Classical music in general. Take it out of the schools?

VHI save the music my ass.

Who said anything about classical music in general? You're not understanding the issue.
 
There should be no problem with traditional Christian Christmas songs being played or taught, freedom of religion and not freedom from religion etc.

More fun from the gravediggers of western civilization here
 
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Yes the PC movement goes too far, I'll be the first to agree with that. But there is still a difference in the private and public sector.
 
Who said anything about classical music in general? You're not understanding the issue

Did you read my original post? The very first post? I think I am understanding the issue.

Most of what my wife does for Madrigal Dinner is classical, which in turn is religious.

Hello? We really are talking about banning most classical music.

Mark
 
Great article A_Wanderer!

Labour peer Lord Ahmed, one of the country's most prominent Moslem politicians, said: 'It is stupid to think Moslems would be offended.

'The Moslem community has been talking to Christians for the past 1,400 years. The teachings from Islam are that you should respect other faiths.'

But, the Red Cross shops are public places! Separation of Christ and Public Places Please!

Do they know it's Christmas? No! Cause it might offend them!
 
but there's a huge difference between having non-Christian high schoolers sing "hallelujah" and classical music in general. let's take U2 music. largely Christian inspired, especially in the beginning, but it's not explictly worshipful -- except for some October stuff, like "Tomorow," which, btw, Bono and Adam redid in a less overtly Christian manner. is WTSHNN about heaven or about belfast or nevada? this isn't an all or nothing thing -- why can't a teacher look at the vast amount of music that's out there and judiciously choose something with musical merit that isn't explicit in it's worshipful intent?
 
MadelynIris said:
Great article A_Wanderer!



But, the Red Cross shops are public places! Separation of Christ and Public Places Please!

Do they know it's Christmas? No! Cause it might offend them!


the Red Cross is a private, charitable organization. public schools are funded by money collected from the taxpayers. there is a world of difference. private schools and organizations can do whatever they damn well please.

this isn't about public spaces, but about federally funded places like schools, post offices, the DMV, whatever.
 
why can't a teacher look at the vast amount of music that's out there and judiciously choose something with musical merit that isn't explicit in it's worshipful intent?

Ok, let's see. We'll have to cut out music from 1400-1800. Sounds good eh?
 
MadelynIris said:


Tell that to Bono in a concert, reciting psalms and all that stuff. God walks into the room my ass.


bono is usually *thrilled* when is lyrics have myriad meanings. "streets" meant one thing to him when he wrote it, meant something else in '93, and something else in '01. i read "one" as an embracing of the gay community and a response to the AIDS crisis. you might read it differently. he'd be happy with either.

notice he says God and *not* Jesus. another big difference.
 
MadelynIris said:


Ok, let's see. We'll have to cut out music from 1400-1800. Sounds good eh?


yes, i think we can cut out Handel's Messiah but keep Bethoven's 5th. or Pachabell's Canon.

this isn't so hard.
 
Okay, okay, let's all take a deep breath in this thread. Please?

MI may be on to something, though. I used to be a hardcore choir nerd, and I remember performing classical music, a LOT...and the vast majority of it was sacred music.
 
Bethoven's 5th

A tribute to the Masons? Talk about weird religious symbolism.

An the problem with Pachalbel, is that even though the canon might not have words, it still had religious inspirations, written for the church. Is it cool if the music was christian inspired by as long as it doesn't have words? Would that offend the Hindu children?
 
MadelynIris said:

Most of what my wife does for Madrigal Dinner is classical, which in turn is religious.


Madrigal Dinner is not a required event for all students to participate.

Yes some classical music is religious but that does not = classical music.
 
MadelynIris said:


Heaven forbid he'd ever say Jesus. Its probably more like Jaysus anyway. ;)

seperation of Church and Bono my ***


hmmm ... bono is a big fan of god and jesus, but he doesn't seem to like church much. hasn't he said the only church he feels comfortable in is the Gilde Memorial church in San Francisco precisely because of its inclusivity?
 
paxetaurora,

Please forgive my 'my a**' taglines. For some reason, it feels right in FYM.

If it is really offending anyone, I'll stop. ;)
 
MadelynIris said:


A tribute to the Masons? Talk about weird religious symbolism.

An the problem with Pachalbel, is that even though the canon might not have words, it still had religious inspirations, written for the church. Is it cool if the music was christian inspired by as long as it doesn't have words? Would that offend the Hindu children?


no, probably not. there is a difference between the religiously inspired and the explicitly worshipful. there's a difference between "silent night" and "jingle bells."

and it's not about being offended, it's about being pushed, again, to the outside. when you grow up as different -- and, believe me, i did in my own way -- you are acutely aware of just how you are different from the majority. i think it would behoove any teacher not to exacerbate these differences.
 
MadelynIris said:


Ok, let's see. We'll have to cut out music from 1400-1800. Sounds good eh?

You are still under the misguided notion that all music from 1400 and 1800 is religious...plus how many elementary school students are being taught these songs?
 
and there's another distinction. i am under the impression that most choir nerds are participating in an extracurricular activity. that involves choice, which is different from all students who have to be part of the school play.

in my elementary school, we had music once a week. in november and december we'd do christmas and some hannukah songs as a class, and then the week before xmas break we'd have the holiday concert where partcipation was mandatory. to sing "christ the savior is born" in that context isn't appropriate. however, if you're singing in an after school choir -- that might still sing in a holiday concert, but participation isn't mandatory -- that is a different story altogether.
 
Wow I went to public school for 12 years of my life and don't remember any of my choir moments, music classes, or school plays having me sing anything religious in nature. And I turned out to be a fine, still a believer.
 
my music teacher was jewish, too. we'd sing songs about holidays, trees, dreidles, etc. but not "oh come all ye faithful."

this was in the 80s.
 
Elective yes, but they still get grades for this activity.

Jehova's Witnesses don't participate in any christmas activity either. They slashed birthdays too. So, when the kids bring cupcakes to class for their birthdays, they are not allowed to eat the cupcake.

hall_captaincupcake.jpg
Captain Cupcake my ass!
 
Wow I went to public school for 12 years of my life and don't remember any of my choir moments, music classes, or school plays having me sing anything religious in nature. And I turned out to be a fine, still a believer.

BVS,

I'm not debating that you turned out great! I'm sure you did. We should have a cup of coffee and a cupcake sometime.

But apparently you guys didn't sing any classical choral works?
 
MadelynIris said:


uhhh what? Classical music, yes, to the great degree.

You've got to be kidding me, the majority of classical music never initially had lyrics. Look you are trying to stretch the argument. Yes a lot of music from this time period may have been inspired or started in the church, but it's exclusive.
 
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