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Old 11-28-2004, 01:27 PM   #16
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its gotten to the point where i hate the materialism, the PCness and the sanitation of the holiday season. it's just too frustrating i try to just close my eyes and plug my ears unless i'm in church.
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Old 11-28-2004, 01:43 PM   #17
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I hate all of the materialism and other stuff that goes on. The idea is to celebrate the birth of Jesus, not to make $$ from the crass "holiday season" insanity that's *entirely* secular.
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Old 11-28-2004, 01:45 PM   #18
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christmas these days has become the anti-christmas. it disgusts me.
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Old 11-28-2004, 07:18 PM   #19
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Originally posted by sharky
NBC- yes, this wouldn't be an issue in most other countries but that's because most other countries have a state-sponsored religion. We don't, which makes this country what it is.
And singing Christmas carols does not constitute government established religion.
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Old 11-28-2004, 07:39 PM   #20
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i think a little tact is all that's needed. i see no problem with, say, "jingle bells" or "have a holly jolly christmas" or santa claus-esqe songs, those are pretty secular and celebrate the holiday. "silent night" ("Christ the saviour is born") or "come all ye faithful" are overtly religious, and sound better in a church anyway. christmas can be celebrated in an entirely secular fashion, as my best friend who is Hindu did with her family for years. they do presents and trees and stockings and santa came to her house, but jesus never really entered the equation. and i thought that was very cool. i think school can be much the same way. recognize it as a cultural event that has religious roots, but the keep the celebration on the secular not the religious. much how everyone can have fun spinning a dreidle and eating delicious jewish food, but not have to worry about hebrew prayers.
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Old 11-28-2004, 07:47 PM   #21
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"Jingle Balls"

Irvine, I trust U also approve of "Back Door Santa". Happy H-daze! Xmas Stonewalling

Visit: www.STONEWALLvets.org/songsofStonewall-6.htm
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Old 11-28-2004, 08:14 PM   #22
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i haven't a clue, but i'm sure i can guess.
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Old 11-28-2004, 08:21 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
i think a little tact is all that's needed.


I work in a place where 95% of my co-workers are Jewish, and a good number are Orthodox. A couple of us play Christmas carols on the radio, nobody is offended and nobody cares - I think they're amused by us singing along - but we don't play "Noel, Noel, born is the King of Israel" because to me, that's just tacky given the surroundings.
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Old 11-28-2004, 08:33 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
i haven't a clue, but i'm sure i can guess.
U are funny, Irvine! I didn't know what U would say, however, your reply was smart, warm and witty. I recall your posts on that recent Election Day proposition of the Gay marriage rights amendment thread with U stating that U are an intellectual Gay (sic), etc. Also, U humorously stated that Gays best know how to throw a wedding! I'm the non-intellectual type (I prefer that positioning) although I do have two or three wasted degrees from accredited universities. Have U seen the SVA weblink yet?

www.STONEWALLvets.org/songsofStonewall-5.htm

Bi the way, "Back Door Santa" is, besides the innuendo and implication, actually also a hot song by soul legend Clarence Carter, originally on an album entitled "Soul Christmas" (now available on c/d). "Back Door Santa" has since been re-done by rap group Run-DMC and also a white rock group -- maybe U-2 -- on one of those rock 'n' roll "A Very Special Christmas"albums!!
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Old 11-28-2004, 10:40 PM   #25
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I'm just so thankful I got to attend a private school and celebrate all Christmases without stupid controversies. I went to a CRC school and we celebrated ALL kinds of Christmas from various cultures and religions. We did stuff like making the dreidles and playing the games that went along with it and we learned about Christmas in Sweden, Christmas in the Netherlands, Africa, kids cooked different Christmas foods from all over the world, etc, etc, not JUST Christian Christmas. I feel bad for the kids in the public schools b/c now they can't celebrate ANY Christmas besides the one true FAKE Christmas which is the yearly climax of commercialization and materialism. You know what the saddest thing is? I bet little kids don't even CARE, they just want to sing songs and play games and have a good time whether they're pretending it's Hanukkah or Kwanza or whatever.
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Old 11-29-2004, 06:38 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by LivLuvAndBootlegMusic
You know what the saddest thing is? I bet little kids don't even CARE, they just want to sing songs and play games and have a good time whether they're pretending it's Hanukkah or Kwanza or whatever.

yes, exactly. what's the problem with that? why don't we put the religon aside (in public schools) and let the kids have fun with, and learn all about, various December celebrations without the school endorsing one particular tradition over another?
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Old 11-29-2004, 09:12 AM   #27
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Originally posted by Irvine511
christmas can be celebrated in an entirely secular fashion
Society has successfully secularized two of the larger Christian religious holidays (Christmas & Easter) that makes this statement true. I guess if we can erase why we celebrate the holiday in the first place, everyone can be happy.
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Old 11-29-2004, 10:19 AM   #28
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it's american business -- like, say, Hallmark -- that have secularized these holidays. like it or not, they are now bigger and more inclusive than the celebration of Christ's birth or his crucifixion. it's less an erasure of the original reason, and an expansion of what they holidays can mean to different people. i don't see what's so bad about this -- i'm not jewish, but i've always enjoyed Passover meals. why not share?
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Old 11-29-2004, 11:15 AM   #29
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Sharing is great. Why not share all of it.

We have participated in Hannakah, Passover and Purim celebrations. To me, understanding the religious roots make the celebrations more meaningful.
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Old 11-29-2004, 01:07 PM   #30
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because we're talking about public schools. celebrate the "winter carnival" aspect of Christmas, and let the religious part be celebrated by christian families and their churches. if i were in a public school, and i were jewish or buddhist or muslim or atheist, i'd feel very, very awkward about being forced to sing "Christ the saviour is born" (or, if i refused, have to suffer feeling even more different from my peers). i wouldn't, however, have any problems with songs involving reindeer, sleighbells, presents, and santa. like i said, Santa can visit Hindu children, but Jesus (necessarily) doesn't become their saviour on the 25th of December.
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