christians sue for right not to tolerate

[Irvine511]

[q]Christians Sue for Right Not to Tolerate Policies
Many codes intended to protect gays from harassment are illegal, conservatives argue.
By Stephanie Simon, Times Staff Writer
April 10, 2006


ATLANTA — Ruth Malhotra went to court last month for the right to be intolerant.

Malhotra says her Christian faith compels her to speak out against homosexuality. But the Georgia Institute of Technology, where she's a senior, bans speech that puts down others because of their sexual orientation.

Malhotra sees that as an unacceptable infringement on her right to religious expression. So she's demanding that Georgia Tech revoke its tolerance policy.

With her lawsuit, the 22-year-old student joins a growing campaign to force public schools, state colleges and private workplaces to eliminate policies protecting gays and lesbians from harassment. The religious right aims to overturn a broad range of common tolerance programs: diversity training that promotes acceptance of gays and lesbians, speech codes that ban harsh words against homosexuality, anti-discrimination policies that require college clubs to open their membership to all.

The Rev. Rick Scarborough, a leading evangelical, frames the movement as the civil rights struggle of the 21st century. "Christians," he said, "are going to have to take a stand for the right to be Christian."

http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/la-na-christians10apr10,0,6596503.story

[/q]



do we have a right to hate? can we sue to protect this perceived right?

 

[verte76]

I don't think we have a right to harrass gays either verbally or physically. Gays are getting killed due to all the homophobia that's going on now. It's scary. I don't like this stuff. To me it's just an excuse for homophobia.

 

[MissMoo]

It's frightening that she is so indoctrinated at only 22.

 

[Judah]

Man, last week Rob Cordry did a funny bit on the Daily Show about the intolerance experienced by racists in America, and, like, how unfair that is.

Sounds like Ruth Malhotra didn't get the joke.

A right to hate, citing "freedom of expression" laws, can soon turn into a right to oppress, which, most everyone would think, is not a modern, enlightened way to run a democratic country.

If true Christianity isn't about universal tolerance (God, i can't stand that word...acceptance, inclusion, etc., are much better), I don't know what is. As verte says, revoking the tolerance policies would ultimately create more hate, not just toward the "sin," but also the "sinners."

 

[Irvine511]

when does the free exercise of religion become harassment of others?

is the free exercise of religion more important than protecting people from harassment in places such as a school, university, or workplace?

 

[the rockin edge]

It's frightening that she is so indoctrinated at only 22.

that's nothing, i know people that are in high school that think/talk like that.

 

[XHendrix24]

The Rev. Rick Scarborough, a leading evangelical, frames the movement as the civil rights struggle of the 21st century. "Christians," he said, "are going to have to take a stand for the right to be Christian."

Oh, give me a fucking break.

I'm not usually one who comments on these types of articles in here, but it really is remarkable how ass-backwards some people's worldviews can be sometimes.

 

[OneBadStay]

The Rev. Rick Scarborough, a leading evangelical, frames the movement as the civil rights struggle of the 21st century. "Christians," he said, "are going to have to take a stand for the right to be Christian."

Boy, is that rich. The denied "right" of false Christians to harrass homosexuals is just like the institutionalized injustice encountered daily by Southern black Americans in the '50 and '60s.

Unbelieveable...

 

[deep]

Can we regulate people's protected religious beliefs?

Is this a slippery slope?



Particularly, if k-y products are involved?

 

[Judah]

>when does the free exercise of religion become harassment of others?

I guess when the religious freedom ultimately can lead to a power structure (democratic or not) where a majority of the people who benefit from that religious freedom use it to harrass the people in the minority...say, something like the Inquisition or, more recently, Talibanic Afghanistan, or, Iran.

>is the free exercise of religion more important than protecting people from harassment in places such as a school, university, or workplace?

Guess it all depends upon the definition, within a country's laws, of what is meant by "free exercise." I don't think you could have religions who may want to do human sacrifices practicing freely. That would impinge upon certain laws and certain people's rights to not be sacrificed.

If there's a religion that preaches hate to people who should have equal rights, and if a country's laws' main priority is for the greater good of society, then i can't say that religion's right to free exercise trumps the right to not be oppressed.

[Oh, and it's nice for Irvin to ask the questions to encourage a discussion, although we all know where he would stand on this.]

 

[Irvine511]

why homosexuals?

why are gay people so much worse than everyone else?

 

[verte76]

why homosexuals?

why are gay people so much worse than everyone else?

Yeah, you'd think they were murderers or something. People like this make it embarrassing to be a Christian.

 

[Judah]

why homosexuals?

why are gay people so much worse than everyone else?

It's getting hard for the hate mongerers to get away hating people openly.

Can't hate the blacks. It's not the '60s (or earlier) anymore.

Can't hate women anymore...damn equal rights movement.

Can't hate the minorities...too politically incorrect.

Good thing we still have the fags and dykes.

Oh, and the fuckin' Moslems.

[Guess what i'm saying is there will always be a portion of the population that hates...hopefully that portion is getting smaller and smaller, as societies become more enlightened; homosexuals, i believe, are the last "psychological" barrier for mainstream society...it's changing; i don't think it'll be that much longer...10 years? 20?...before these institutionalized barriers against homosexuals seems like a relic of the past. Well, i'm more hopeful being in Canada...not sure about the U.S.]

 

[deep]

If there's a religion that preaches hate to people who should have equal rights, and if a country's laws' main priority is for the greater good of society, then i can't say that religion's right to free exercise trumps the right to not be oppressed.

The majority does not agree these people should have equal (special) rights.
Adultery may be legal.
Moral, G-d fearing religious people have a right to condemn it.
Other behavior, (sin) should not be protected in laws that take away a person's right of conscious to speak out against it. *






* Troglodyte argument - no. 1.0003

 

[LPU2]

why homosexuals?

why are gay people so much worse than everyone else?

The Old Testament says that homosexuality is an abomination. Many Christians, therefore, view it as wrong. Sinful. Evil even.

I can't really say whether it's a sin or not. In the same part of the Bible, we're told that eating pork and shellfish are also abominations.

Jesus Christ never mentions homosexuality. Not even once. So how important could it have been to Christ? Yet all this talk of poverty, disease, greed....judgement.

Personally, I think God's testing us. And religious conservatives are failing. In fact, I would say not only are they getting it wrong, but they're the very people the Bible warns us about.

 

[Irvine511]

Moral, G-d fearing religious people have a right to condemn it.
Other behavior, (sin) should not be protected in laws that take away a person's right of conscious to speak out against it. *

should Muslims have the right to speak out against students of age who drink alcohol?

is being gay the same thing as drinking alcohol?



(i actually do think there are very interesting issues here ... i am a very, very staunch supporter of freedom of speech, as well as freedom of religious expression so long as it is independent of federal, state, and local governments ... what i really want to examine here is what happens when one man's tolerance is understood as another form of bigotry)

 

[BrownEyedBoy]

Some christians confuse the concept of loving the sinner but hating sin.

Now, seeing as though everyone is a sinner how is that homosexual sin is worse than any other sin?

In God's eyes we are all equal and we should just practice love. Jesus commanded us to show the world who we are by showing how much we love our neighbors. Apparently these people skipped that part of the Bible.

 

[deep]

should Muslims have the right to speak out against students of age who drink alcohol?

is being gay the same thing as drinking alcohol?



(i actually do think there are very interesting issues here ... i am a very, very staunch supporter of freedom of speech, as well as freedom of religious expression so long as it is independent of federal, state, and local governments ... what i really want to examine here is what happens when one man's tolerance is understood as another form of bigotry)

Because you quote me
You must know my hidden agenda



My two posts were typical so-called reasonable responses
that many Evangelical Christians believe
I have heard them, so many times over.


Should we/ would we tolerate these same people telling Jews they are damned and will not be saved
unless they reject their faith and accept Jesus Christ as their Savior?

So it is written
There is no equivocation in this belief!



I did not get to read the entire LA Times Monday or I may have posted this myself.

I did read the entire article online, the paper is lying on the floor of my 19 mpg SUV.

 

[Irvine511]

I did read the entire article online, the paper is lying on the floor of my 19 mpg SUV.

 

[deep]

hey, it replaced a 15 mpg sedan, don't stop lovin' me.

Hey! My name is Ruth and I'm a 3rd year International Affairs, also double-minoring in Pre-Law and Spanish. I am from Atlanta, Georgia
and have lived here all my life!
Like most Tech students, classes take up the majority of my time, but I have lots of extra-curricular interests! On campus,
I am involved with College Republicans, Alpha Delta Chi Sorority,
and the Ivan Allen College Student Advisory Board. I also love traveling all over, hanging out with friends, and
doing random things (like shopping!) I love to talk about almost anything
(especially politics, religion, and baseball), so I would love to hear from you!

If you would like to contact me (you know you want to!), send me an email at:
gtg540h@mail.gatech.edu

Perhaps, we should ask her some polte questions?

public link here

 

[A_Wanderer]

[q]Christians Sue for Right Not to Tolerate Policies
Many codes intended to protect gays from harassment are illegal, conservatives argue.
By Stephanie Simon, Times Staff Writer
April 10, 2006


ATLANTA — Ruth Malhotra went to court last month for the right to be intolerant.

Malhotra says her Christian faith compels her to speak out against homosexuality. But the Georgia Institute of Technology, where she's a senior, bans speech that puts down others because of their sexual orientation.

Malhotra sees that as an unacceptable infringement on her right to religious expression. So she's demanding that Georgia Tech revoke its tolerance policy.

With her lawsuit, the 22-year-old student joins a growing campaign to force public schools, state colleges and private workplaces to eliminate policies protecting gays and lesbians from harassment. The religious right aims to overturn a broad range of common tolerance programs: diversity training that promotes acceptance of gays and lesbians, speech codes that ban harsh words against homosexuality, anti-discrimination policies that require college clubs to open their membership to all.

The Rev. Rick Scarborough, a leading evangelical, frames the movement as the civil rights struggle of the 21st century. "Christians," he said, "are going to have to take a stand for the right to be Christian."

http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/la-na-christians10apr10,0,6596503.story

[/q]



do we have a right to hate? can we sue to protect this perceived right?

Yes we do and we damn well should sue for the right to hate, speech codes are some of the more innocuous anti-freedom measures that people accept.

Two cases in Australia that show where this thinking goes is the trial of 'The Two Dannies", Evangelicals from Catch the Fire Ministries who have been brought up on charges of religious vilification for holding a seminar on Islamic theology and how to talk to Muslims about Christianity ~ they had agenda, converting Muslims. But punishing them for offensive speech against a religion is completely buggered. The other case is Professor Andrew Fraser who has been brought up with the Equal Opportunities Comission because he claimed that African Immigrants had a higher crime rate. Two examples where they try to silence offensive speech, the sedition provisions in out anti-terror legislation are also poor because they could be used to gag nut-job Islamic preachers who rally against the "Jews and Crusaders".

I want to see a world where the Christians can offend people, where the Muslims can offend people and the Atheists can offend right back.

 

[A_Wanderer]

Originally posted by Irvine511

should Muslims have the right to speak out against students of age who drink alcohol?

Yes they should, and could enjoy the response of piss off ~

is being gay the same thing as drinking alcohol?

They are both haraam aren't they?

(i actually do think there are very interesting issues here ... i am a very, very staunch supporter of freedom of speech, as well as freedom of religious expression so long as it is independent of federal, state, and local governments ... what i really want to examine here is what happens when one man's tolerance is understood as another form of bigotry)

Tolerance is not always a good thing - one example that comes to mind is the practice of Sati in India under the British Raj. If your views are antiethical to those of somebody elses you are under no obligation to respect their beliefs ~ they are under no obligation to respect yours.

 

[Irvine511]

Re: Re: christians sue for right not to tolerate

Yes we do and we damn well should sue for the right to hate, speech codes are some of the more innocuous anti-freedom measures that people accept.

as much as it might surprise some, i'm inclined to agree with you here.

to a point. this is not about speech alone, and where does speech become harassment?

should Christians be able to sue for the right to discriminate against homosexuals in, say, cases of hiring or housing? anti-discrimination laws are so written into the fabric of hiring, housing, schooling, or anything requiring federal funds, that it seems appaling to say that, well, it is one group's right to discriminate against another group, and though we won't tolerate it based on race, we WILL tolerate it on the basis of sexual orientation. you can't pick and choose who gets protected -- either everyone does, or no one does, which is why i'd rather do away with all Hate Crimes laws than to have the exclusion of gay people from such crimes blaring in my face every time i go to, say, St. Maarten (see the brokeback thread).

if we are going to argue that homosexuality is "behavior" and "choice," and therefore exempt from anti-discrimination laws, well then i'm damn well going to defend my right to discriminate on the basis of religion since religion is far, far, far more of a "behavior" and a "choice" than sexual orientation.

so i'm putting my foot down: i will never, ever hire a Zororastrian. how dare you infringe on my right to do so!

 

[verte76]

Forget it, deep. Hell will freeze over before people that narrow-minded will change their views.

 

[nathan1977]

Can a mod please delete the pictures and contact info for this student? I find this highly inappropriate.

 

[BVS]

Can a mod please delete the pictures and contact info for this student? I find this highly inappropriate.

Why if it was public to begin with?

 

[melon]

I wonder what diseases you get from kissing Republicans?

Melon

 

[yolland]

I'm inclined to agree with BVS--and having read the article, it hardly sounds like Ms. Malhotra fears a challenge (though nathan, please feel free to email me if you want to pursue this further). Of course, anyone who takes advantage of the link to merely flame her would just reinforce her opinion that she's being persecuted, plus she might post or circulate to other websites any email feedback she gets.

 

[WildHoneyAlways]

Re: Re: Re: christians sue for right not to tolerate

either everyone does, or no one does, which is why i'd rather do away with all Hate Crimes laws than to have the exclusion of gay people from such crimes blaring in my face every time i go to, say, St. Maarten (see the brokeback thread).

The high school I teach at has included homosexuals in our hate crime/hate speech policy. This was a huuuuuge step for my district considering the community and the school board. (What the school board did to our Gay Straight Alliance makes me physically ill, but that might be for another thread)

 

[deep]

All I did was google her name


and her site came up

public link here


I did say polite questions

I don't believe in flaming



I agree that she probably will not change her opinion

she has too much invested

and gets plenty of reinforcement from like-minded people