Christians Should Follow the ACLU / Libertarians on this one...

[the iron horse]

http://www.no2id.net/

 

[the iron horse]

In the U.S. this was attached to another bill and President Bush
blessed it, and all those wonderful informative news channels
said little or nothing.


Have you heard about it?
*in the States*

Europe, I think, is trying the same thing.

 

[A_Wanderer]

The government has been pushing biometric ID for a while now, it won't stop terrorism, it will help collect taxes and fines.

 

[the iron horse]

http://www.lp.org/media/article_140.shtml

 

[BVS]

Maybe I'm missing something, but what does one's faith have to do with this?

 

[A_Wanderer]

God is the ultimate big brother.

 

[blueyedpoet]

Christians who believe in the rapture believe that state-issued IDs that are somehow linked to 666 will come about sometime around the rapture. Good christians will, of course, resist these IDs.

 

[blueyedpoet]

I should add that I think this whole idea is just stupid, intrusive, and will end up somehow hurting marginalized individuals. It's frightening. When I was in London several years ago I couldn't believe Blair was actually trying to get these sort of IDs passed.
While I believe the government should provide universal health care, assist the poor (really assist, not America's current system of welfare - what a joke for the poor), tax the rich far more than the poor, I am opposed to anything like total intrusion on private lives.
While I think the notion of a rapture is a bit silly, I agree with conservative christians that these kinds of IDs are evil.

 

[BVS]

Christians who believe in the rapture believe that state-issued IDs that are somehow linked to 666 will come about sometime around the rapture. Good christians will, of course, resist these IDs.

Are you serious?

 

[blueyedpoet]

i wish

 

[Axver]

Are you serious?

Every time this sort of thing comes up on Christian messageboards, regardless of the original poster's intent, the thread morphs into a discussion about how it's the "mark of the beast" and is a "sign of the times" and will be used after the Rapture by the Antichrist to control everyone. Anyone who takes the "mark of the beast" is damned to Hell.

Pop theology at its hilarious worst.

 

[the rockin edge]

Every time this sort of thing comes up on Christian messageboards, regardless of the original poster's intent, the thread morphs into a discussion about how it's the "mark of the beast" and is a "sign of the times" and will be used after the Rapture by the Antichrist to control everyone. Anyone who takes the "mark of the beast" is damned to Hell.

Pop theology at its hilarious worst.

i've met many people in person with those opinions.

credit cards are also the mark of the beast.

 

[nbcrusader]

Christians who believe in the rapture believe that state-issued IDs that are somehow linked to 666 will come about sometime around the rapture. Good christians will, of course, resist these IDs.

Similar arguments have been raised regarding Social Security Numbers.

There is a continual effort to try and understand the writings in the Book of Revelation and other prophetic writings in Scripture. This is no more than a misguided attempt to quantify the various milestones as described in Scripture (we should not be trying to guess "when", etc.).

It is a difficult command to be "prepared" yet not try to guess "when".

 

[blueyedpoet]

Similar arguments have been raised regarding Social Security Numbers.

There is a continual effort to try and understand the writings in the Book of Revelation and other prophetic writings in Scripture. This is no more than a misguided attempt to quantify the various milestones as described in Scripture (we should not be trying to guess "when", etc.).

It is a difficult command to be "prepared" yet not try to guess "when".

I'm so retarded. I meant to write earlier that I wish I wasn't joking to BVS. Oh well....

Here's my take:
The book of Revelations is an apocryphal account of the fall of the roman empire. Jews and Christians alike were fearful of being spied and "dog-tagged" so to speak, by the Romans.

 

[Axver]

i've met many people in person with those opinions.

I feel sorry for you. I haven't personally met anyone quite that crazy, though I've known a few fans of the Left Behind series.

It just appals me that there are actually people who listen when "theologians" advise them to read Revelation like a newspaper. However did those dolts pass Bible school? It's 2nd century Apocalyptic literature - read it how it was intended to be read! You wouldn't try to read a PhD thesis like it's a Shakespearean play or a modern action thriller like it's Time magazine, would you?

 

[the rockin edge]

I feel sorry for you. I haven't personally met anyone quite that crazy, though I've known a few fans of the Left Behind series.

a few years ago we went to a church full of them, i was around them all the time.

i could've easily become one.

 

[MacHat]

On the subject of the mark of the beast, for my religious right course we just read an article that talks about how some fundamentalists thought Mikhail Gorbachev's birth mark was the mark of the beast .

 

[BVS]

On the subject of the mark of the beast, for my religious right course we just read an article that talks about how some fundamentalists thought Mikhail Gorbachev's birth mark was the mark of the beast .

 

[deep]

the mark of the beast is not a laughing matter

Don't you see the connection between Social Security and Mikhail Gorbachev?

taking money and redistributing it is a Socialist program.

And Socialism was out to destroy America, one nation under God.

 

[A_Wanderer]

I think that Antipas Ministries is evidence that religious foolishness is not the exclusive domain of one political group.

 

[Axver]

On the subject of the mark of the beast, for my religious right course we just read an article that talks about how some fundamentalists thought Mikhail Gorbachev's birth mark was the mark of the beast .

And the godless red horde is coming to abort and eat all good American Christian babies, right?

 

[nathan1977]

"I hope the Russians love their children too."

 

[the iron horse]

Not all Christians believe that the scriptures teach a pretribulational "taking away" or rapture of Christians.

I am one of them. It is, in my opinion , a false teaching.

I think the Left Behind series is a great cash cow(for the authors) and also very unscriptural.


I want to encourage Christians who have been taught this and all others interested, to do some reading and study on this subject.

 

[nbcrusader]

Are you questioning whether the rapture takes place, or just the timing of the rapture?

 

[the iron horse]

"Are you questioning whether the rapture takes place, or just the timing of the rapture?"

Yes, I believe there will a taking away of the church, but I believe
the scriptures teach this happens, at some point, after the appearance of the Anti-Christ.

I think, for example, this is very clear at the end of the I Thessalonians and chapter two of II Thessalonians.

 

[Harry Vest]

It's funny out of ALL the "ministries" you could attack you would pick Antipas Ministries??? Not Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, Tim LaHaye, Ron Luce etc. etc. Although I think that some of Antipas Ministries beliefs are pretty way out there they make alot more sense than the typical American Fundamentalist Evangelical "ministries" that I've ever come across. In fact some of stuff they have to say about these right wing "Christians" makes perfect sense - not to mention what they say about George W. Bush, Iran, Iraq, the religious right, corporate America etc. etc. Although I am not a "member" of this ministry I happen to take many of the things they have to say quite seriously. Not everything they have to say - but certainly some of it.

 

[deep]

Skeptical, rational thinking leads one to believe the rapture
is one of many myths propagated by various groups to further their agenda.

I will predict that all reading these words will die a human death,
as all their predecessors have


The first followers of Christ were apocalyptic and expected not to experience physical death.
They also expected to see the return of Christ and the rapture in their lifetime
That is what they believed "the scriptures" said.

 

[nbcrusader]

You see everything as an "agenda".

Plenty of skeptical, rational thinkers have analyzed Revelation and try to give understanding to its words.

The first followers of Christ did what many do today - get ready.

 

[melon]

The Rapture is an evangelical Protestant concept born out of 19th century America, thus being a theology I never believed in.

I believe it best to take the advice that St. Paul gave to the "Left Behind"ers of his day: stop worrying about it and live your life.

Melon

 

[anitram]

The first followers of Christ did what many do today - get ready.

By building some kind of Evangelical Disneyland in Israel?