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Old 09-05-2004, 01:06 AM   #1
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Christian Conservatives Leave Convention in Great Spirits

From an article appearing in the 9/4 edition of the L.A. Times:

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics...-home-politics

September 4, 2004

THE RACE TO THE WHITE HOUSE
Christian Conservatives Leave Convention in Great Spirits


By James Rainey, Times Staff Writer


[A few select quotes from the above-referenced article:]

[q]NEW YORK — They may have been pushed mostly out of the prime-time spotlight, but Christian conservatives left the Republican National Convention on Friday inspired by one of the most socially conservative party platforms in years and determined to reelect a president they viewed as an ideological soul mate.[/q]

[q]Now, in the 60 days remaining before the election, they plan to register thousands of voters, whose names have been gleaned from church directories...[/q]

[q]President Bush supports God, and God supports President Bush, absolutely," said Judith H. Manning, an alternate delegate from Marietta, Ga., explaining the fervor for Bush.[/q]

[q]...the conservatives' domination of the platform debate went even further. They won a plank stating that Congress and the president might limit the jurisdiction of federal courts, a response to rulings that forced the removal of a Ten Commandments monument from an Alabama courthouse and that would have stripped the words "under God" from the Pledge of Allegiance had the U.S. Supreme Court not intervened. The platform also declares that only heterosexual couples should receive legal recognition and related benefits.[/q]


[q]Moderates were so outnumbered here that they could not even get the platform committee to hear a motion in favor of a "unity" plank, which would have recognized other points of view on such hot-button issues as same-sex marriage and abortion.

"They just hung around, whining in the halls. They didn't have the votes," Phyllis Schlafly, a long-time conservative activist, said of the moderates.[/q]

Oh, there's more, but how much evidence is needed to close the case against the right wing extremists running this administration?

*edited for typo
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Old 09-05-2004, 04:56 AM   #2
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Re: Christian Conservatives Leave Convention in Great Spirits

Quote:
Originally posted by pub crawler
President Bush supports God, and God supports President Bush, absolutely," said Judith H. Manning, an alternate delegate from Marietta, Ga., explaining the fervor for Bush.
I don't believe God support President Bush exclusively. John Kerry supports God too.

Quote:
One activist recruited conservatives to infiltrate Democratic-leaning churches and report on liberal ministers who make overt political appeals on behalf of the Democratic candidate, Sen. John F. Kerry of Massachusetts.
Creepy. I can't imagine sneaking into a Church sermon as a spy. Yeah, that's doing God's work.

Quote:
Moderates were so outnumbered here that they could not even get the platform committee to hear a motion in favor of a "unity" plank, which would have recognized other points of view on such hot-button issues as same-sex marriage and abortion.

"They just hung around, whining in the halls. They didn't have the votes," Phyllis Schlafly, a long-time conservative activist, said of the moderates.
I hate the use of the word whining in this paragraph.


This article makes my blood boil. The idea that God is exclusive to this group just ticks me off.

Ok, I'll take a deep breath & relax, There's no them, only us..... there's no them, only us.... There's no them, only us.....
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Old 09-05-2004, 05:05 AM   #3
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Relgious Goons are utter wankers - 'nuff said.

I will make the point that being a political conservative does not by definition make one a bible bashing christian so right wing extremists is not an apt term. Christian Zealots however is totally acceptable. I say down with religion, it is a stain on humanity that demands pointless obedience and causes more trouble than it fixes - but thats just my opinion, and it is equally as valid as anybody elses.
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Old 09-05-2004, 05:14 AM   #4
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I finished my post after A-Wanderer. I posted it too early and then edited.
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Old 09-05-2004, 05:16 AM   #5
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Was a response to pub-crawlers last bit - I did think there was something a little wierd about just repeating the same set of quotes with no comments
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Old 09-05-2004, 08:51 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
Relgious Goons are utter wankers - 'nuff said.
Right wing conservative Christians are a substantial and influential part of George W. Bush's base. They will work their asses off in the next 60 days to get out the vote. Bush is their guy. (It should be noted that there are tens of millions of Christians who do not regard President Bush as their spiritual leader. But the right-wingers do. That's the point).


Quote:
I will make the point that being a political conservative does not by definition make one a bible bashing christian so right wing extremists is not an apt term.
When I use the term "right wing extremist," I am referring to messrs. Bush, Cheney and Wolfowitz.
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Old 09-05-2004, 11:20 AM   #7
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This faction of his base scares the hell out of me, and I'm a Christian.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/storydispl...ction=dialogue

"I trust God speaks through me. Without that, I couldn’t do my job." -- George W. Bush
http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Sept04/Williamson0904.htm
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Old 09-05-2004, 02:39 PM   #8
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Quote:
"I trust God speaks through me. Without that, I couldn’t do my job." -- George W. Bush
If Bush is representative of how God speaks, I'm a little worried about God.
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Old 09-05-2004, 02:45 PM   #9
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I loved what John Kerry said about this during his acceptance speech:

And let me say it plainly: in that cause, and in this campaign, we welcome people of faith. America is not us and them. I think of what Ron Reagan said of his father a few weeks ago, and I want to say this to you tonight: I don't wear my own faith on my sleeve. But faith has given me values and hope to live by, from Vietnam to this day, from Sunday to Sunday. I don't want to claim that God is on our side. As Abraham Lincoln told us, I want to pray humbly that we are on God's side. And whatever our faith, one belief should bind us all: The measure of our character is our willingness to give of ourselves for others and for our country.
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Old 09-05-2004, 02:50 PM   #10
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Anyone besides me who think that they misused the name of the Lord for PR and personal profit?
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Old 09-05-2004, 03:18 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by sharky
I loved what John Kerry said about this during his acceptance speech:

And let me say it plainly: in that cause, and in this campaign, we welcome people of faith. America is not us and them. I think of what Ron Reagan said of his father a few weeks ago, and I want to say this to you tonight: I don't wear my own faith on my sleeve. But faith has given me values and hope to live by, from Vietnam to this day, from Sunday to Sunday. I don't want to claim that God is on our side. As Abraham Lincoln told us, I want to pray humbly that we are on God's side. And whatever our faith, one belief should bind us all: The measure of our character is our willingness to give of ourselves for others and for our country.
That just about sums it up for me. Especially where he says "America is not us and them."

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Old 09-05-2004, 04:51 PM   #12
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As a practicing Catholic Christian, I'm a little uneasy about mixing religion and politics. You really can't completely separate them. Each of us is a composite of various and sundry belief systems due to our experiences, values, etc, etc. For example, I'm also a political liberal. Many Christians do not agree with this because they like socially conservative ideas like opposing gay marriage and abortion. That's fine with me. Personally, I support civil gay unions but the sacrament of marriage, in the Catholic Church, is about binding a man and a women together. Neither the pope nor any other Church authority can drastically change the sacraments. We have seven of them. If you are Catholic sacraments are the most important thing in your life. If you are Jewish, and practice the faith of your people, Jewish law is the governing concept of your life. If you're Muslim, it's Islamic principles. There are also liberals and conservatives in politics. Conservatives believe in limited government in general, and liberals believe in "activist" government. I'm definitely in the "activist" government school of thought.
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Old 09-05-2004, 07:20 PM   #13
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As a conservative Christian, I find the stereotyping of the "faction" quite unbecoming of supposed tolerant people.
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Old 09-05-2004, 07:32 PM   #14
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I agree with you there, religious tollerance means understanding why people may want to lop heads off while directing all criticism at churches for not accepting transgender priests or some other off the wall demands. I suppose that it proves Dreadsox's (I know your lurking out there come back after election) hypothesis that criticism of any religion but Christianity equals bad, criticizing Christianity equals acceptable. Just want to make a point that my views and beliefs are just as valid as anybody elses, just because I think that religion is a bit dodgy does not mean that I think your beliefs are invalid and mine are somehow better - in the final analysis we have no certainty about what goes on behind the scenes in the universe and it is that uncertainty that makes branes floating in higher dimensional planes or God equally as valid (until of course we devise an experiment to prove or disprove those hypothesis).
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Old 09-05-2004, 08:14 PM   #15
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My problem is not so much with what these people believe, but the fact that they have perverted Christianity into something it never was. Islamic terrorists around the world want to create Islamic theocratic states, but Islam was a theocracy from day 1, when Muhammad was around, and this is therefore an extension of that. Judaism was also always a theocracy, and therefore goes a long way to explain Orthodox Jewish views regarding the Israeli state.

However, Christianity was NEVER a theocracy, but instead, the early Christians (who initially were still considered Jews), accepted life within a non-Christian state (Rome). In fact, the split with Judaism occurred because the Christian Jews did not want to rebel against the polytheists, while the Jews did. The reason behind this was that early Christians believed the kingdom of heaven was at hand and that Jesus would return like a "thief in the night" and therefore it was more important to prepare your heart for the arrival of the kingdom of God than it was to bicker and fight with the Romans. Historically, Christians were able to live in non-Christian states precisely because the religion was not theocratic, and therefore did not permeate the social, political and economic fabric. Islam, on the other hand flourished as a theocracy, and to this day struggles to exist in a global society because there is no context within Islam for existence as a matter of secondary importance within a society. It always has to be number one and it always has to drive the state's goals. But what we are seeing now in the USA especially are Christian right wing groups who are precisely trying to pervert Christianity into something radically different than what it was historically established as. "Give to Cesar what is Cesar's and give to God what is God's" is just one teaching that emphasized the early Christian view, that it is possible for a Christian to live a good, exemplary Christian life, to prepare their soul for eternal life, to live guided by faith, yet to be able to do so in a place where Christianity is not the ruling party, etc. This is what absolutely disturbs me about many of the evangelical groups - they want to make Christianity into a theocracy, they want to control aspects of the government, laws, morality for all citizens, regardless of affiliation, and that's complete and utter perversion of what Christianity is, and IMO, it's a hijacking of Jesus' teachings.

Christianity is a beautiful religion, there is no other which so strongly emphasizes the concept of forgiveness and love, but there are people within it who are seriously doing it harm, and it's time for people to speak up about it. We constantly preach to the Middle East about getting their moderates to speak up, well by God, it's time we do the same.
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