China Quake: 10.000 or More Dead

[JCOSTER]

 

[butter7]

Have you ever ask why the Burma government accepted aid from China and Thailand, but rejected the help from America, even UN was blocked out?

If you didn't, the Times's article "Is it the time to invade Burma" might help.

BTW, what your people called the Chinese investment in Africa again? New colonialism? Shall we say "a liar never trust others"?

 

[ntalwar]

but rejected the help from America, even UN was blocked out?

The first of three US flights has delivered aid.

BTW, what your people called the Chinese investment in Africa again? New colonialism?

Link?

 

[Irvine511]

You're insinuating that I meant someone, where as all I meant was it is rather eerie, ironic and strange all at the same time that China is behind alot of horror and now they get the biggest earthquake in 30 years.

Thats it. Don't assume. Its just a statement and nothing else.

it just seems disgusting to me to think that some "force" is moving plates in the earth in order to kill over 15,000 people because they have a crappy government. your suggestion connects dots between events -- akin to people suggesting that Hurricane Katrina hits New Orleans, and we all know that the most "sinful" town in the south is NoLA -- is genuinely offensive.

it seems to me that all the tornadoes that hit the US are concentrated around the Bible Belt. perhaps Allah is punishing the infidels?

 

[Irvine511]

Welcome back from Mars.

i see hubris and arrogance are not just American values.

 

[Irvine511]

Have you ever ask why the Burma government accepted aid from China and Thailand, but rejected the help from America, even UN was blocked out?

If you didn't, the Times's article "Is it the time to invade Burma" might help.

BTW, what your people called the Chinese investment in Africa again? New colonialism? Shall we say "a liar never trust others"?

are you honestly defending the rights of the Junta to deny aid to their citizens, causing tens of thousands more to die, because they are worried that foreign aid is a threat to their sovereignty?

 

[GirlsAloudFan]

Re: Re: Re: Re: China Quake: 10,000 or More Dead

If the Sun's aging process holds true, Earth will be uninhabitable to all life as we know it in 900 million to 1 billion years. A billion years after that, all surface water will have boiled away and evaporated. By the time the Sun becomes a red giant 3 billion years after that, Earth will either become a lifeless ball of molten rock, be swallowed by the Sun completely, or, as a compromise, it will be ripped apart by tidal forces into an asteroid belt. Of course, there is also a 1 in 100,000 chance that a passing star will disturb our orbit around the Sun before that ever happens and eject us into the oblivion of space. Perhaps a good moment for that will be when the Andromeda Galaxy merges with the Milky Way Galaxy in 3 billion years?

You just fucking blew my mind.

I was planning on staying alive for the next 5 billion years.

My plans have now changed.

 

[Vincent Vega]

There have been pro-China demonstrations in Germany?

 

[angelordevil]

This is about countless numbers of people buried or missing. The discussion about "values" can probably wait.

 

[butter7]

There have been pro-China demonstrations in Germany?

Oh, sorry, it seems they didn't wait for you to approve.

 

[butter7]

This is about countless numbers of people buried or missing. The discussion about "values" can probably wait.

Except besides discuss the "value", I doubt there would be anything that your guys would like to do. So I guess it's okay to use the value discussion to pass some boring time.

 

[A_Wanderer]

Oh, sorry, it seems they didn't wait for you to approve.

Different country, in Germany one doesn't have to wait for the government of the day to approve of public demonstrations.

 

[butter7]

Different country, in Germany one doesn't have to wait for the government of the day to approve of public demonstrations.

Please go to check the law in Germany before you post.

If you want to do the demonstration all by yourself, you probably don't have to apply, but for more than hundred, you need to get approved by both the government, and the police.

The demonstration hold in Berlin, got approved by the government, but the police forced them to change the route, to stay away from the parliament building.

 

[A_Wanderer]

Do you feel that the state would ban a protest on the basis of the political message?

Would they stop a demonstration if it wasn't as nationalistic as they like?

Could the same be said in mainland China? How far does freedom of assembly and freedom of speech extend?

 

[butter7]

Do you feel that the state would ban a protest on the basis of the political message?

Would they stop a demonstration if it wasn't as nationalistic as they like?

Could the same be said in mainland China? How far does freedom of assembly and freedom of speech extend?

What really interesting is the pro-Tibet demonstration got passed.

Of course they were not promoting nationalistic political message, if you believe.

 

[Vincent Vega]

Oh, sorry, it seems they didn't wait for you to approve.

?? I think you got me wrong. I just never heard of any large pro-China demonstration in Germany. But here, at least, you are free to register a demonstration and then go on your march. And the police is there to protect your march and your free speech, not to control it.

Please go to check the law in Germany before you post.

If you want to do the demonstration all by yourself, you probably don't have to apply, but for more than hundred, you need to get approved by both the government, and the police.

The demonstration hold in Berlin, got approved by the government, but the police forced them to change the route, to stay away from the parliament building.

It's basically right, though demonstrations almost always get approved. This is more of a formal thing in order to make sure that the roads can be closed, the route will be free (it would cause some problems if two demonstrations took the same route at the same time) and police can arrange for a safe demonstration.
There are only very few demonstrations that get allowed to directly pass the parliamentary building.
Nevertheless, our constitution guarantees us to assemble and to demonstrate.

 

[achtung_girl]

^!
I remember when I was in school we did a demonstration, cause we weren't allowed to have a graduation party.LOL We were ca. 50 people and got followed by 2 police cars, although we said that this is not necessary (the demonstration was a joke and not a serious statement), they followed us all time cause it is not allowed without police! It was just ridiculous ....

 

[Vincent Vega]

Of course it's ridiculous, though if something happens everyone is going to ask "Where were the police to provide security?"
It's Germany after all, nothing goes without the right procedure.

 

[A_Wanderer]

What really interesting is the pro-Tibet demonstration got passed.

Of course they were not promoting nationalistic political message, if you believe.

I don't believe that the Chinese state has a strong commitment to the freedoms of the Chinese people, I don't think that state stage managed protests offset locking up journalists, activists and bloggers.

Case in point

China's state-run media reports that two people have been detained for allegedly spreading rumours about the earthquake that hit the country's south-west, killing more than 14,000 people.

The two people, from Chongqing province next to quake-hit Sichuan, have been ordered to be held for three days, Xinhua news agency quoted the Chongqing Public Security Bureau as saying.

Xinhua says one of them, surnamed Tang, released a picture on an internet forum purporting to show many Sichuan residents escaping the quake.

But police found Tang's picture was actually of a crowd celebrating an event linked to the upcoming Beijing Olympic Games in Chengdu, the capital of Sichuan.

The other, surnamed Jin, is said to have posted a picture of a department store building on an online forum and claimed its roof had collapsed. Police discovered the collapse never occurred.

Earlier this week, the Chinese government warned that anyone found spreading false rumours about the quake would be punished.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/05/15/2245068.htm?section=world

In the USA the media was brutal in it's coverage and exposure of government ineptitude surrounding Hurricane Katrina and they didn't get locked up over it. It is an issue of freedom, the freedom to question the government in order to hold it account.

If that is anti-nationalistic then so be it, it remains an important sentiment.

 

[butter7]

I don't believe that the Chinese state has a strong commitment to the freedoms of the Chinese people, I don't think that state stage managed protests offset locking up journalists, activists and bloggers.

Case in pointhttp://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/05/15/2245068.htm?section=world

In the USA the media was brutal in it's coverage and exposure of government ineptitude surrounding Hurricane Katrina and they didn't get locked up over it. It is an issue of freedom, the freedom to question the government in order to hold it account.

If that is anti-nationalistic then so be it, it remains an important sentiment.

I guess you have no understanding about certain things, and now I really feel that I have no responsibility for your education. Have told you too much already, from the 89 incident to German law. If you really interested in this subject, I'd suggest you to do a decent amout of academic research. News report can tell you "what", but never be able to tell you "why".

You reminded me one member in interference, who claim Confucius was the Jesus to Chinese people.

You know, the first time in my life, when I saw African people, I thought their skin colour was painted on. So I couldn't resist to touch and see if the colour would run off to my finger. It is stupid, but if I didn't do, I would still believe their skin colour was painted today.

I don't want to sell you my opinion, it probably would make you even more confused. You need to "touch the skin" by yourself and see if the colour runs off.

 

[Irvine511]

^ well this gets us nowhere.

we'd like your perspective. please share, but don't expect it to go unchallenged. everyone's perspective is challenged in here (on a good day).

 

[butter7]

^ well this gets us nowhere.

we'd like your perspective. please share, but don't expect it to go unchallenged. everyone's perspective is challenged in here (on a good day).

Because I really didn't intend to get you anywhere.

To be honest, I really didn't bother what your guys really think, it's "your business with your brain", why should I care? I just enjoy to see the battle in this forum sometimes.

And yes, I'm a typical Chinese. Righ now, I only care about the death figure, and the donation total.

 

[Irvine511]

Because I really didn't intend to get you anywhere.

To be honest, I really didn't bother what your guys really think, it's "your business with your brain", why should I care? I just enjoy to see the battle in this forum sometimes.

And yes, I'm a typical Chinese. Righ now, I only care about the death figure, and the donation total.

we all care about the death toll, and the donation total. the world is behind your people as they respond to this unspeakable tragedy.

but to show up, toss around a few insults, and then say, "yeah, i don't care what you think," really isn't doing much to bolster the credibility of your nationalism.

i'd love to hear more from you. i am very curious about your perspective on issues. i won't attack you, but i will challenge you.

but if you don't want to participate, that's fine.

 

[A_Wanderer]

I guess you have no understanding about certain things, and now I really feel that I have no responsibility for your education. Have told you too much already, from the 89 incident to German law. If you really interested in this subject, I'd suggest you to do a decent amout of academic research. News report can tell you "what", but never be able to tell you "why".

You reminded me one member in interference, who claim Confucius was the Jesus to Chinese people.

You know, the first time in my life, when I saw African people, I thought their skin colour was painted on. So I couldn't resist to touch and see if the colour would run off to my finger. It is stupid, but if I didn't do, I would still believe their skin colour was painted today.

I don't want to sell you my opinion, it probably would make you even more confused. You need to "touch the skin" by yourself and see if the colour runs off.

This isn't an issue of race, it is an issue of individual liberties. We are speaking past each other. I have an antipathy towards the Chinese state that is not born out of any negativity to the Chinese people.

The perspective that you convey is one that seems to tow the party line, it seems either willfully naive or well calculated and I do not think it is untoward to challenge those assumptions.

Is it alright for the government to censor political opinions?

Is it reasonable to lock people up over their opinions?

Is it fair to have state control over what constitutes acceptable history, to impose limits upon what the unwashed masses should be allowed to know, the ultimate form of political correctness?


Who benefits from belief in nationalism? Who stands to gain? Who inculcates those opinions into the youth?

Why do you hold the beliefs that you do, who stands to gain from you holding those beliefs?

Are those beliefs worth challenging?

 

[butter7]

we all care about the death toll, and the donation total. the world is behind your people as they respond to this unspeakable tragedy.

but to show up, toss around a few insults, and then say, "yeah, i don't care what you think," really isn't doing much to bolster the credibility of your nationalism.

i'd love to hear more from you. i am very curious about your perspective on issues. i won't attack you, but i will challenge you.

but if you don't want to participate, that's fine.

Okay, I only ask you one question, in Yuan dynasty, it's the Mongolian rule China, and in Qing dynasty, it's the Man ethic group. Can you help me to define the nationalism for the two dynasty?

May be you can try to explain why there are no such thing called "pure Chinese", 80% of the Chinese people are partically Mongolian?

 

[butter7]

This isn't an issue of race, it is an issue of individual liberties. We are speaking past each other. I have an antipathy towards the Chinese state that is not born out of any negativity to the Chinese people.

The perspective that you convey is one that seems to tow the party line, it seems either willfully naive or well calculated and I do not think it is untoward to challenge those assumptions.

Is it alright for the government to censor political opinions?

Is it reasonable to lock people up over their opinions?

Is it fair to have state control over what constitutes acceptable history, to impose limits upon what the unwashed masses should be allowed to know, the ultimate form of political correctness?


Who benefits from belief in nationalism? Who stands to gain? Who inculcates those opinions into the youth?

Why do you hold the beliefs that you do, who stands to gain from you holding those beliefs?

Are those beliefs worth challenging?

Hope this picture can help you understand the culture difference. This is one page from a set of picture done by a media student in Germany, to explain the general culture difference between China and Germany.

The blue side is for Germany, and the red side is for China.

 

[A_Wanderer]

Middle classes destroy that excuse, even though they only make up a fraction of the very large and hard to govern population.

 

[butter7]

Middle classes destroy that excuse, even though they only make up a fraction of the very large and hard to govern population.

hehe, if you are in Melbourne, you surely have heard about that pro-China demonstration in April right? Australia government charge international student two times more than the local student, and the cost for doing a master degree is reaching $10,000 per semester. Do you think these students are from poor families in China?

 

[Irvine511]

Okay, I only ask you one question, in Yuan dynasty, it's the Mongolian rule China, and in Qing dynasty, it's the Man ethic group. Can you help me to define the nationalism for the two dynasty?

May be you can try to explain why there are no such thing called "pure Chinese", 80% of the Chinese people are partically Mongolian?

i don't even understand where the question is in these various statements.

you're the one who brought up "nationalism." why don't you help us understand how the Chinese understand the term and how it is used in everyday speech and in a modern context.

 

[butter7]

i don't even understand where the question is in these various statements.

you're the one who brought up "nationalism." why don't you help us understand how the Chinese understand the term and how it is used in everyday speech and in a modern context.

If you mean the idea of having God punish innocent people with natural disasters for the crimes of their government then yes, it is immature and stupid.

Obsequious admiration of government and nationalism is at least as ugly.

I am not a Christian.

This is the first post that used the word "nationalism" in discussion in this thread. I had no idea what the relationship between the earthquake with nationalism either. May be the original owner of the post could give you a better explaination?