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Old 03-27-2003, 06:56 AM   #1
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Children Shooting at Marines

I am sincerely curious about what you would do if you were a Marine and this was happening to you? What would your decision be facing life or death and the enemy has given weapons to kill you to children?

Quote:
Garvin said some of the Iraqi fighters were using women as shields and had given guns to children.

"Unfortunately some of the children have been firing at our Marines and our Marines have been forced to defend themselves," he said.

The wounded appeared to be in addition to 15 Lejeune Marines who have been reported injured during the Iraqi conflict. Eleven Lejeune Marines have died, nine in combat in the An Nasiriyah area and two in accidents.


http://newsobserver.com/nc24hour/ncnews/story/2379455p-2217701c.htmlhttp://newsobserver.com/nc24hour/ncnews/story/2379455p-2217701c.html
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Old 03-27-2003, 07:06 AM   #2
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that is horrible

and I expect more when they get into baghdad...I'm actualluy starting to doubt that the US can do this.
When they get into the city it may be a good possibility that almost all civilians take up arms or fight in some way. This is couold be a bloody mess

sweet Lord
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Old 03-27-2003, 07:12 AM   #3
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I dunno...I guess they have to self-defend themself if they're fired upon (and even then just try to wound them so they would not fire) - or try to disarm them even before that.
On the other hand, how old are the youngest Coalition soldiers?

Not related, but this reminds me of the last days of Germany's regime in WWII. Didn't Hitler used kids the last time they defended Berlin?
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Old 03-27-2003, 08:29 AM   #4
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Good Lord this is ugly. I was afraid a scenario like this would develop. It's too much.
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Old 03-27-2003, 09:08 AM   #5
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I hope and pray this doesn't turn into another Mogadishu.....
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Old 03-27-2003, 09:26 AM   #6
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By the end of World War II, Nazi Germany was using soldiers as young as 13.

I think what this is is a reality check. We've grown accustomed to efficient, Clinton-era military excursions. Kosovo, for instance, was liberated solely using airstrikes (although the GOP was getting impatient, pushing for ground troops). Bush sold this war on the American public, implying this would be quick. Sure, he had his "fine print" saying that it might be longer, but he certainly didn't try too hard to stop public opinion from expecting a short war. "Shock and awe," as we see, was a theory that did neither.

I think my issue with the GOP and wars is that, while they have the confidence, I don't approve of their military tactics, per se. I think ground troops were sent in too early; we should have bombed the shit out of them before we stepped in. Having a military tactic that assumes "mass surrender" is not a tactic at all.

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Old 03-27-2003, 09:29 AM   #7
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Oh and I doubt that neither the U.S. nor the rest of the world will have patience for Bush after Iraq here, if he chooses to destroy the rest of the "Axis of Evil." I also think that international relations are in terrible shape, and that if we want any hope of repairing them, we will need to kick Bush out into the cold in 2004.

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Old 03-27-2003, 10:16 AM   #8
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this regime sinks lower and lower every day.



I hope they soften up baghdad with more sirstrikes before seding our troops in. And I hope civiliians dont' take to arms....it will result in a lot more innocent deaths than necessary.
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Old 03-27-2003, 10:59 AM   #9
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this regime is getting worse every day...

you fail to realize that these people hate the americans. whether we think it makes sense or not - they do! they see the americans as invaders and crusaders NOT liberators.

this is another example of that. believe it or not, there are people and nations that dont want to be occupied by the united states.
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Old 03-27-2003, 11:17 AM   #10
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I don't think you can really soften Baghdad in the sense that nearly everybody there has a gun. So, unless you plan on carpet bombing the city, this will be hell once the forces step in.

The US relied too much on this surrender and joyous celebration tactic, particularly among the Shiites. Well, this is what their prominent leadership is saying:

Quote:
A prominent Iraqi Shiite leader on Tuesday signed a fatwa (religious decree), calling for expelling "infidel followers" who invaded Iraq.

"It is necessary for Muslims all over the world to come back to Allah and ask him to help us in a fierce battle against infidel followers who invaded our homeland," Ayatollah Ali Al-Sistani said in the decree in the Shiite city of Najaf in southern Iraq.
Quote:
In a foretaste of what the future may hold for the coalition forces, Sheikh Mohammed al-Khakani, a leading religious authority in Najaf, on Tuesday called on Iraqis to “defend their country, honor and religion by expelling the unbelievers from the land of Islam.”
Ayatollah Mohammed Baqr al-Hakim, the head of the Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq (SCIRI), the largest Shiite opposition group, warned on Tuesday that his followers are “ready to take up arms” should the coalition troops become an occupation force. The Badr Brigades, SCIRI’s 15,000-strong military wing mainly deployed in Iran with some units in Kurdish-controlled northern Iraq, has so far stayed out of the fighting. But they could represent a formidable obstacle to US plans for post-Saddam Iraq if Shiite interests are not taken fully into account.
“The American troops will face a very strong resistance in just a couple of months. They will have to leave the cities and move into the desert,” said a veteran Hizbullah fighter who spent his childhood in Najaf. “I know the Iraqi people and I think the Americans will face the same resistance the Israelis faced in Lebanon, even harsher.”
Quote:
Leave After War, Iraqi Opposition Tells US
Reuters



TEHRAN, 26 March 2003 — The leader of Iraq’s main Shiite opposition group warned Washington yesterday that US troops would face armed resistance if they stayed in Iraq once President Saddam Hussein was toppled. “Iraqis are against foreign dominance, and if they (the Americans) don’t want to leave Iraq, the nation will resist,” said Ayatollah Muhammad Baqir Hakim, head of the Tehran-based Supreme Council of the Islamic Revolution in Iraq (SCIRI). “One of the legitimate ways of resistance against occupiers is force and weapons,” he told a news conference.

The gray-bearded Hakim said SCIRI, which draws its support from Iraq’s Shiite majority, said he had tens of thousands of troops stationed inside and outside Iraq, ready to resist any foreign occupation. The group’s armed wing, known as the Badr Brigade, has paraded hundreds of lightly armed fighters in Kurdish-ruled northern Iraq. But it has tended to keep the size and whereabouts of its other forces a closely guarded secret.
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Old 03-27-2003, 11:23 AM   #11
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besides the obvious iraqi resistance to the americans, you must realize that internal resistance will begin at home if this war should be drawn out over a long period of time. and as gruesome as it sounds, if body bags start pouring into the states, it wont be a good thing either. not that anyone wants that, but im just saying.
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Old 03-27-2003, 11:31 AM   #12
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gickies i understand and agree with you. i had this same discussion w/ several friends and members of my family the other day and your points were all brought up.
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Old 03-27-2003, 11:37 AM   #13
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Re: Children Shooting at Marines

Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
I am sincerely curious about what you would do if you were a Marine and this was happening to you? What would your decision be facing life or death and the enemy has given weapons to kill you to children?
Dread, seriously, what is the point in asking such a leading question? Of course this situation is sad and deplorable. What answer would you expect?

I've become numbed by and disillusioned with the discussion in this war forum.
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Old 03-27-2003, 01:20 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by MissVelvetDress_75
gickies i understand and agree with you. i had this same discussion w/ several friends and members of my family the other day and your points were all brought up.
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Old 03-27-2003, 01:40 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon
We've grown accustomed to efficient, Clinton-era military excursions.
And Somalia.


sorry for the unnecessary detour. I couldn't help note the statement - efficient, military and Clinton in the same sentence
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