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Old 03-27-2003, 01:51 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon
I think my issue with the GOP and wars is that, while they have the confidence, I don't approve of their military tactics, per se. I think ground troops were sent in too early; we should have bombed the shit out of them before we stepped in. Having a military tactic that assumes "mass surrender" is not a tactic at all.
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Old 03-27-2003, 02:22 PM   #17
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Originally posted by nbcrusader


And Somalia.


sorry for the unnecessary detour. I couldn't help note the statement - efficient, military and Clinton in the same sentence
Don't forget which president got us in Somalia in the first place: Bush, Sr.

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Old 03-27-2003, 03:15 PM   #18
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Originally posted by Arun V
And I hope civiliians dont' take to arms....it will result in a lot more innocent deaths than necessary.
Do you have exact figure of how many innocent deaths are necessary?

Bismark once said something like that: "Most of the boasting is done either after hunting or before a war."

Still waiting for cheering in Baghdad?
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Old 03-27-2003, 03:30 PM   #19
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alexrus i do not think it is very fair that you are constantly putting words in people's mouths and twisting their words. it's ridiculous. you are doing it all over the place. please stop. you know damn well that arun, nor anyone else, doesn't think innocent deaths are "necessary" so to speak. inevitable yes, but to assume that arun thinks of these people as numbers rather than humans is obnoxious and wrong.
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Old 03-27-2003, 03:37 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon


Don't forget which president got us in Somalia in the first place: Bush, Sr.

Melon
Sure he did, on a humanitarian mission. And then Clinton pulled everyone right back out 5 months later. However, what the Clinton adminstration did after that point I wouldn't exactly call "efficient". In fact, it's what led to the death of many of our boys over there.

http://www.opinionjournal.com/editor...l?id=110002091
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Old 03-27-2003, 05:23 PM   #21
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The fact that "many" is "18" really shows what a luxurious lifestyle we live in today. I'm sure "18" would have been a good day in Vietnam.

But I guess we've gotten off track to my point, which is not to defend Clinton, but to point out that people are used to quick, bloodless conflicts that the Clinton-era was known for. Again, I'm more interested in "perception," rather than debating "reality."

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Old 03-27-2003, 05:38 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by ALEXRUS


Do you have exact figure of how many innocent deaths are necessary?

Bismark once said something like that: "Most of the boasting is done either after hunting or before a war."

Still waiting for cheering in Baghdad?


well genius..in a war civillian casualties occur..it's a sad thing that occurs in war...the word implies it


can you name me one major conflict in which no civilian casualties occured???


if there were no civilian casualties in war...I doubt ppl would object to it so much.




What I'm saying is..your country doesn't have a perfect history either...so don't twist my words in an attempt to villify me...it's an insult to the real villians in history.
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Old 03-27-2003, 06:07 PM   #23
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Re: Re: Children Shooting at Marines

Quote:
Originally posted by pub crawler

Dread, seriously, what is the point in asking such a leading question? Of course this situation is sad and deplorable. What answer would you expect?

I've become numbed by and disillusioned with the discussion in this war forum.
Ummmm....Usually when I start a question saying I am sincerely curious I mean it. If you find it too emotional a question then ignore it and move on. It was a sincere question.

I honestly think I would be dead if a kid pointed a weapon at me. I do not think I have it in me to fire back. And having been through boot camp and military police school, there is nothing in all of the training I went through in eight years that would have prepared me for this situation.

Yes it is sad and deplorable. It is the first issue of this war that troubles me on a different level.

Matt
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Old 03-27-2003, 06:50 PM   #24
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I guess my cynicism got the best of me. I'm sorry for that, Matt. I know you're a good guy.

Peace.
Kevin
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Old 03-28-2003, 04:34 AM   #25
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Originally posted by pub crawler
I guess my cynicism got the best of me. I'm sorry for that, Matt. I know you're a good guy.

Peace.
Kevin
It's all good it is an emotional issue.

Peace
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Old 03-28-2003, 10:28 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by Screaming Flower
alexrus i do not think it is very fair that you are constantly putting words in people's mouths and twisting their words. it's ridiculous. you are doing it all over the place. please stop. you know damn well that arun, nor anyone else, doesn't think innocent deaths are "necessary" so to speak. inevitable yes, but to assume that arun thinks of these people as numbers rather than humans is obnoxious and wrong.
I never put my words in smb else's mouth. Sorry if you percieve it like that. But the very combination of words "civilian deaths necessary' enrages me.
It is obnoxious to call civilians killed 'collateral damage'. It is not my term. This "euphemism" is what I call word twisting.
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Old 03-28-2003, 10:38 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by Arun V

if there were no civilian casualties in war...I doubt ppl would object to it so much.
What I'm saying is..your country doesn't have a perfect history either...so don't twist my words in an attempt to villify me...it's an insult to the real villians in history.

Hm, genius... I do feel flattered.
"If there were no civilian casualties in war..." Do not you understand that with every day of this war, you will have to kill more and more civilians. Do you really think that people in Iraq still remember that you go after SH? They are just fighting 'foreign agressors' who occupied their land. Guerilla war will continue until the last Iraqi is dead or until the last foreign soldier leaves Iraq. Humanitarian aid will not change their attitude. They will be biting the feeding hand.

As for the history of my country, I do not understand why you raise the issue here now. Start another thread. Just for information: "The only perfect place with perfect history is paradise".
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Old 03-29-2003, 01:01 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by ALEXRUS



Hm, genius... I do feel flattered.
"If there were no civilian casualties in war..." Do not you understand that with every day of this war, you will have to kill more and more civilians. Do you really think that people in Iraq still remember that you go after SH? They are just fighting 'foreign agressors' who occupied their land. Guerilla war will continue until the last Iraqi is dead or until the last foreign soldier leaves Iraq. Humanitarian aid will not change their attitude. They will be biting the feeding hand.

As for the history of my country, I do not understand why you raise the issue here now. Start another thread. Just for information: "The only perfect place with perfect history is paradise".
what I'm saying is..I wouldnt' be so quick to judge.


Are you telling me that war can be conducted with no civilian csualties? if so...enlighten us....I'm sure there are many ppl who'd love to hear this plan. ....you'll be quite the name....I'll call time and have them save the cover.



We dropped an A bomb on japan...after rebuilding their economy we've have good relations with them. We fought a war with germany and until recently we've had VERY cordial relations with the germans. So if you telling me that civilian casutlites inflicted today will impact the way iraqis view the united states historically..you may in fact be wrong. That being said lets move on


Let's jsut stop being foreign agressors and let sanctions kill far more iraqis...that of course is a better course of action according to you?....the long term well being of the iraqi ppl is then in very serious jeopardy.
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Old 03-30-2003, 12:11 PM   #29
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thats horrible but Saddam does that kind of stuff and so did Vitenam. I just hope this war is over as soon as possible.
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Old 03-30-2003, 12:57 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by Arun V

...that of course is a better course of action according to you?....
Now who´s putting words in whose mouth?

Relax, both of you. Your quarrel won´t make this war less cruel.

I wonder about people who support this war and are innocently wondering about those cruelties. After all, thats what war is about. As if you hadn´t known that in the first place. Supporting this war and at the same time being shocked by death and cruelties is a little naive in my opinion, but nevermind,... I don´t mean it personal or anything, just keep supporting the leader of the free world and call cruelties inevitable, but then don´t wonder about it, where´s the point.
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