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Old 12-13-2005, 09:40 AM   #1
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"Children Of All Ages Have To Behave"

Is it OK for someone to put a sign like that in a store or other place of business? I don't have kids but I can definitely sympathize, that kids do act up sometimes in spite of parents' best efforts. On the other hand so many times I am in a situation in which screaming, misbehaving kids make me want to scream and run out of the place, it ruins my enjoyment -and sometimes the parents are obviously making no effort to do anything about it. It's not PC, a sign like that-but maybe it has become almost necessary.

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/ar...behave?mode=PF

CHICAGO -- Dan McCauley had seen one too many children at his café lying on the floor in front of the counter, careening off the glass pastry case, coming perilously close to getting their fingers pinched in the front door. So he posted a sign: ''Children of all ages have to behave and use their indoor voices."

To him, it was a simple reminder to parents to keep an eye on their children and set some limits. But to some parents in his North Side Chicago neighborhood, the sign may as well have read, ''If you have kids, you're not welcome."

That one little notice, adorned with pastel hand prints, has become a lightning rod in a larger debate over parenting and misbehaving children.

''It's not about the kids," says McCauley, the 44-year-old owner of A Taste of Heaven café, who has no children but says he likes them a lot. ''It's about the parents who are with them. Are they supervising and guiding them?

''I'm just asking that they are considerate to people around them."
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Old 12-13-2005, 09:47 AM   #2
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I saw this on the news the other week. There's actually quite a few places in Chicago that have similar signs.

I'm all for it. Some of these restaurants have occured pricey damage from kids stabbing booths with forks etc...
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Old 12-13-2005, 09:50 AM   #3
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Maybe we need to execute them. How else will children know it is wrong to misbehave in public?

Satire aside, I think too many parents don't know how to control their children enough. I think the first step is to stop thinking every bad deed they do as an infant or toddler is "cute." It merely encourages them as they get older. Treat a puppy like that and see what kind of rotten dogs they turn into as adults.

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Old 12-13-2005, 10:02 AM   #4
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The sins of children are often a product of the sins of parents. As much as parents fail to control their children, children simply follow the models their parents set for them.
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Old 12-13-2005, 10:06 AM   #5
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It is annoying when people bring their babies and small kids into R rated movies for instance, don't get me wrong I completely understand that babysitters are expensive, tough to get, etc. but I have been in the movies when the babies/kids cried/acted out the entire time. That's why they have special theaters/movies now that are kid free or kid friendly. Unfortunately there isn't a kid free one near me

There are great parents and there are parents who seem to lack basic abilities to control their kids, or don't seem to even care that their kids are disturbing people. Like I said, I understand that kids can be uncontrollable at times.

Honestly I do try to schedule doing certain things when I know kids won't be there. I admit that I have very little patience for them sometimes when they are out of control because I don't have any.
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Old 12-13-2005, 11:18 AM   #6
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I have no problem with the sign and neither should other parents. If they do have a problem with it, they probably allow their children to engage in the behavior that caused the notice to be put up in the first place.

This obviously wouldn't (or shouldn't) offend a parent whose child is occasionally cranky or just having a bad day...its meant for the parents who as a habit just tune it out or who feel their little darlings have every right to stretch out on the floor of a cafe after a good meal

I find myself just shaking my head at times when I see parents simply tune out their kids while they climb under tables, stand up in restaurant booths and throw food everywhere. If your child isn't old enough or well behaved enough to sit through a restaurant meal or can't stay quietly occupied while the parents have coffee, get a sitter or go to a more kid friendly establishment.

My own kids got one warning and if they kept it up, they were taken outside. That was usually all it took. I don't understand this fear of discipline.
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Old 12-13-2005, 11:36 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bono's American Wife
I don't understand this fear of discipline.
Perhaps it was the result of a era where we were told to never spank your children. Too often, I see parents trying to reason with their children or be the friends of their children instead of the parents of their children. In my experience, children crave boundries. And giving them clear boundries gives them freedom to live within those boundries, instead of trying to guess where the boundries are.
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Old 12-13-2005, 11:43 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


Perhaps it was the result of a era where we were told to never spank your children. Too often, I see parents trying to reason with their children or be the friends of their children instead of the parents of their children. In my experience, children crave boundries. And giving them clear boundries gives them freedom to live within those boundries, instead of trying to guess where the boundries are.
I've seen results of both parents who spank and have horrible kids, and parents who don't and have wonderful kids. And vice versa. I think you are simplifying things by saying it's a result of an era that _____, or that it's the sin of the parents. Honestly I've seen arguments for all. The one thing I've noticed to be consistant throughout all camps is that inconsistancy is a problem. Parents that will spank or discipline in other ways at home but not in public, out of fear of what they will look like.

I do agree about boundaries though.
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Old 12-13-2005, 11:45 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


Perhaps it was the result of a era where we were told to never spank your children. Too often, I see parents trying to reason with their children or be the friends of their children instead of the parents of their children. In my experience, children crave boundries. And giving them clear boundries gives them freedom to live within those boundries, instead of trying to guess where the boundries are.


can boundaries be created with words and consequences for actions instead of physical harm? i don't see why the best way to enforce a boundary -- which i do agree children want and need -- is through an open hand (or, worse, a closed fist).

i've seen many kids who are spanked who are excessively anxious and nervous, and tend to overreact to the slightest problem (i.e., the blocks fell over) because of the constant fear of physical threat from their parents.

we don't hit other people, why is hitting a child acceptable?
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Old 12-13-2005, 11:46 AM   #10
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I am in favor of discipline, not physical discipline but discipline gained from respect and proper teaching of behavior that is expected.

I think part of it is that some kids are overindulged and spoiled, to the point that some parents actually seem afraid of their kids- I've seen that.

Btw I'm not talking about kids who have ADHD or other physical problems which cause them to misbehave on occasion, that is different.

I see plenty of kids who can't even behave for one hour in church, and some parents refuse to take them to the parents' room too, seemingly they don't care how disruptive that is.
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Old 12-13-2005, 11:53 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
can boundaries be created with words and consequences for actions instead of physical harm? i don't see why the best way to enforce a boundary -- which i do agree children want and need -- is through an open hand (or, worse, a closed fist).

i've seen many kids who are spanked who are excessively anxious and nervous, and tend to overreact to the slightest problem (i.e., the blocks fell over) because of the constant fear of physical threat from their parents.

we don't hit other people, why is hitting a child acceptable?
Spanking instead of clear communication will never work. Spanking as a last resort will get the attention of a child.

I've never resorted to spanking because, I believe, I've gotten in my children's face (clear face to face communication) to set expectations early. I have found this works both at home and in public because it does not require a raised voice, but clearly conveys my desires for their behavior.

And it is always followed by a hug. You've got to teach a child that you discipline because you love them. If I didn't care about them, I wouldn't discipline them. Both understand and appreciate this.
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Old 12-13-2005, 12:01 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


Spanking instead of clear communication will never work. Spanking as a last resort will get the attention of a child.

I've never resorted to spanking because, I believe, I've gotten in my children's face (clear face to face communication) to set expectations early. I have found this works both at home and in public because it does not require a raised voice, but clearly conveys my desires for their behavior.

And it is always followed by a hug. You've got to teach a child that you discipline because you love them. If I didn't care about them, I wouldn't discipline them. Both understand and appreciate this.


to me, and going on my experience teaching pre-school and in working with kids for years, this seems like exactly the right way to go about sending clear messages to your children.

clarity is key.

i was questioning your linking of the message "don't spank" to a lack of parental clarity and discipline. one has nothing to do with the other.
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Old 12-13-2005, 12:14 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen
It is annoying when people bring their babies and small kids into R rated movies for instance, don't get me wrong I completely understand that babysitters are expensive, tough to get, etc. but I have been in the movies when the babies/kids cried/acted out the entire time. That's why they have special theaters/movies now that are kid free or kid friendly. Unfortunately there isn't a kid free one near me

There are great parents and there are parents who seem to lack basic abilities to control their kids, or don't seem to even care that their kids are disturbing people. Like I said, I understand that kids can be uncontrollable at times.

Honestly I do try to schedule doing certain things when I know kids won't be there. I admit that I have very little patience for them sometimes when they are out of control because I don't have any.

u aint kidding....ive been to movies like SAW and SAW 2 at midnight and there have been people with strollers and babies and very young toddlers...making noise and crying all over the place..the movie theater needs to stop them from bringing their kids..its wrong on 2 levels...

1) the kids shouldnt be subjected to violence and stuff like that and shouldnt be out that late at night except in the case of emergency....

2) its disrespectful to the other theater goers who paid their hard earned money to have to sit and listen to other people's kids crying....if its a kids movie, i understand, but a violent gory movie or a movie with adult themes? totally ridiculous...
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Old 12-13-2005, 12:46 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by NYRangers78



u aint kidding....ive been to movies like SAW and SAW 2 at midnight and there have been people with strollers and babies and very young toddlers...making noise and crying all over the place..the movie theater needs to stop them from bringing their kids..its wrong on 2 levels...


it's true. i am mortified when i see people bringing children to movies like "saving private ryan" or "road to perdition."

it blows my mind.
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Old 12-13-2005, 12:50 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
it's true. i am mortified when i see people bringing children to movies like "saving private ryan" or "road to perdition."

it blows my mind.
To me, this is the obvious flaw of the ratings system. Just because you're accompanied by a parent, that makes it less traumatic or harmful?

I wish there was some type of theatre policy about these situations. NC-17 shouldn't be the only rating that bars minors from viewing.
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