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Old 12-16-2005, 11:24 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally posted by bonosgirl84
it always comes back to the parents.
Absolutely.

Too bad we've lost interest on a national level in parenting.
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Old 12-16-2005, 11:35 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


Absolutely.

Too bad we've lost interest on a national level in parenting.
Yes, and why is that? Why are we no longer holding parents accountable for their offspring and blaming everything else? The government, the workplace, the media, the marketing industry, the schools, etc., have all been blamed for children's bad behavior, yet parents get off scot-free. I don't get it.
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Old 12-16-2005, 01:11 PM   #48
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Originally posted by Golightly Grrl
Yes, and why is that? Why are we no longer holding parents accountable for their offspring and blaming everything else? The government, the workplace, the media, the marketing industry, the schools, etc., have all been blamed for children's bad behavior, yet parents get off scot-free. I don't get it.
Because it takes a village to raise a child.
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Old 12-16-2005, 01:20 PM   #49
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Originally posted by stammer476


Because it takes a village to raise a child.


hey -- Hillary's right: it does take a village.

i am who i am today because of the dozens and dozens of adults, beyond my parents, who took an active interest in my welfare and well being. and i can't thank them enough.
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Old 12-16-2005, 01:38 PM   #50
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Originally posted by Irvine511
hey -- Hillary's right: it does take a village.

i am who i am today because of the dozens and dozens of adults, beyond my parents, who took an active interest in my welfare and well being. and i can't thank them enough.
Agreed. In fact, I get paid to be one of those people.

But in response to Golightly Grrl's post, at what point do we have to stop blaming the village and start blaming the parents?
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Old 12-16-2005, 01:51 PM   #51
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Originally posted by stammer476


Agreed. In fact, I get paid to be one of those people.

But in response to Golightly Grrl's post, at what point do we have to stop blaming the village and start blaming the parents?


very cool.

to the second question, i really don't know ... having been part of that village as a teacher and coach, i often see parents trying to blame the village for anything less than the worship of their child ... i suppose parents are ground zero, but if the village is bad, as it were, then there is often only so much a parent can do. i also think that sometimes we're a bit too hard on parents, since i really do think that most do the best they can ... though in the urban village i currently live in, there are many, many parents who would benefit tremendously from simple parenting lessons. it's appaling some of the stuff i see at the supermarket, on the metro, and walking down the street, and it gives one good insight into how destructive generations of near-poverty is ... it seems like many of these kids are already doomed to stay at the poverty level from the day they are born due to the non-willfull ignorance of their parents.

but then i sound patronizing.

*sigh*

what's a white liberal to think in the big, bad city?

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Old 12-16-2005, 02:09 PM   #52
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Originally posted by Irvine511
i suppose parents are ground zero, but if the village is bad, as it were, then there is often only so much a parent can do. i also think that sometimes we're a bit too hard on parents, since i really do think that most do the best they can
It's hard for me to let parents off with the idea that they're doing "the best they can." Children deserve more than the "best" of their parents if that best isn't very good. Simplistic, certainly, but I can't help that.

Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
though in the urban village i currently live in, there are many, many parents who would benefit tremendously from simple parenting lessons.
Same thing is true in the suburban village I live in. What is most shocking in my experience, though, is how many parents REFUSE any help. Maybe it's a pride issue, I don't know. But from what I've seen, too many parents have an "us against them" philosophy when it comes to other adults. No one can tell them how to raise their child, or impede on their parental territory.
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Old 12-16-2005, 02:29 PM   #53
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So many things to respond to. First, let me say I have great parents. I did get spanked on occasion. I also got the reach around when I was in the car [Mom would reach around the seat and grab my leg] and the arm grab. My parents would be considered child abusers now. That being said, those things happened rarely mainly because they threated us ahead of time. "There are fragile things in this store. DO NOT touch anything." I never asked "Or what are you going to do?" I just didn't touch anything.

I think the bigger issue is that my parents took an interest in my sister and I. When I came home from school, it was always "What did you do today? Who did you eat with at lunch? What did you talk about?" It was so subtle that I never picked up on the fact that my parents were keeping tabs on me. In fact, I remember my senior year prom. We all went over to a friend's house and a bunch of us just spent the night there instead of driving home. I called my mom and said "Can we change plans? Becky's mom invited us to spend the night. Is that ok?" My mom had no problem with it because she knew Becky, knew Becky's parents, and knew the biggest trouble we would get in was staying up until 3 a.m. watching movies. But she knew that because she took an interest in me.

As for kids today, it's been a trend. Remember all those stories about kids not playing dodge ball because it was mean or you couldn't award a first place in something because the other kids would feel bad? I don't mean this to sound offensive, but when I played dodge ball, me and the mentally challenged kid were always the last two to be picked for a team and sometimes the mentally challenged kid got picked before me. And when the game started, I got a beating first. Despite that, I'm a pretty well adjusted person. I think.

As for the kids in the movies, an NYC theater was doing this great Mommy & Me thing where one movie showing a week was specifically set aside for moms. You could bring the kids to let them run around, breast feed your baby in the theater, etc. Got the moms to the movies, no baby sitting money needed, and no one had a problem with kids in the theater because everyone had kids in the theater.

So in the end, the sign is fine. I thought it was actually funny when I first read it. "Children of all ages have to behave" makes it sound like there were some adults who were not acting properly. Well, if you can't keep your kid in line, you probably have to behave better.
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Old 12-16-2005, 03:04 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
hey -- Hillary's right: it does take a village.
I guess a lot depends on what is the "village".

If "village" means friends, family and neighbors, then yes - mutual help and support on a personal level can very well be beneficial.

If "village" means government - it is dead wrong.
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Old 12-16-2005, 03:09 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


I guess a lot depends on what is the "village".

If "village" means friends, family and neighbors, then yes - mutual help and support on a personal level can very well be beneficial.

If "village" means government - it is dead wrong.


why can't it be all these things?

i personally enjoyed the public school i went to, the public swimming pool i first learned to swim at and then became a lifeguard, swim instructor, and swim team coach.
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Old 12-16-2005, 03:22 PM   #56
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Sometimes the government is all that's left to step in and save a child, literally or otherwise

It saves the government money and many other things in the long run to be involved with kids when it's necessary
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Old 12-16-2005, 03:25 PM   #57
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Sometimes the government is all that's left to step in and save a child, literally or otherwise

It saves the government money and many other things in the long run to be involved with kids when it's necessary





great point, Mrs. S.

it's foolish, and incorrect, to work under the assumption that all children have good families, or even functioning families.
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Old 12-16-2005, 03:37 PM   #58
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Originally posted by Irvine511

great point, Mrs. S.

it's foolish, and incorrect, to work under the assumption that all children have good families, or even functioning families.
Yeah, but I think NBC's point is that you can't rely on the government to actually raise the child. I didn't mind public school either [despite the fact that I went to a Catholic high school I loved]. But I would say part of the problem in some cases is the parents see the government and specifically public schools as the panacea -- parents expect the schools to discipline and teach their kids. I have a friend who is a first grade teacher and is frankly the ONLY person in the lives of some of her students that is interested in their learning.

It can also be the other extreme with parents who take too much interest in their kids' education. The whole dodge ball issue and first place crap is based on school board [government] decisions after complaints from parents. If my future kid comes in second place in the science fair, I'll be proud. She her report on evolution [only intelligent design is acceptable] or sexually transmitted diseases [it will only encourage kids to have sex].
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Old 12-16-2005, 03:45 PM   #59
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Originally posted by Irvine511
it's foolish, and incorrect, to work under the assumption that all children have good families, or even functioning families.
This is exactly where you will get opposition to the "village" concept. The government determines what is "good" or "functioning" and then decides to take over the role of parent. This creates even less incentive for people to act as parents because they can abdicate responsibility to the government.
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Old 12-16-2005, 03:49 PM   #60
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Originally posted by nbcrusader


This is exactly where you will get opposition to the "village" concept. The government determines what is "good" or "functioning" and then decides to take over the role of parent. This creates even less incentive for people to act as parents because they can abdicate responsibility to the government.


so, by this line of thought, parents abuse and neglect their children and leave them tied up in closets because they have no incentives to take care of their children because they expect the government to do it?

who, then, decides what constitutes an abusive home?
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