"Children Of All Ages Have To Behave"

[indra]

For me, it's because I had enough experience in this area to realize that some parents are psycho, and they will have no trouble bitching YOU out if you so much as suggest that their child is inconveniencing you.

When we were little, if somebody would have approached my parents and requested of them that we behave, we'd be in so much trouble that it simply wasn't worth it. Seems like these days, it's your fault for having the audacity to complain, and not the kid's fault for being an idiot.

ABSOLUTLY!

My brother told me this story just a couple of weeks ago. He works at a large home improvement warehouse kinda store, and a customer he was dealing with had a couple of children with him. The kids were bring brats, climbing all over stuff and all. Well, they started climbing on this big flatbed lumber cart and my brother told them kindly, but firmly, to get off, which they did. (it is posted company policy that no one is allowed to be on those carts.)

The father when ballistic! He told my brother never to speak to his childern, that they were his kids and he would tell them what to do (he had told them to get down, but apparently his kids don't give a crap because they ignored him completely), and complained that other stores allowed his kids to do stuff like that. He didn't seem to care that his "precious" little brats could get hurt or killed, he just cared that someone else spoke to them.

What a fucking moron.

 

[joyfulgirl]

When we were little, if somebody would have approached my parents and requested of them that we behave, we'd be in so much trouble that it simply wasn't worth it.

Same here. My parents only had to give me a stern look and I would sit down, sit up straight and shut up, and those stern looks were few and far between--i.e. pretty much unnecessary. I've given misbehaving children stern looks when their parents weren't looking and weren't paying attention to their kids, and guess what? The behavior stopped immediately.

Why can't they be like we were, perfect in every way...what's the matter with kids today?

I like the sign in the restaurant. I also like "please step outside to use your cell phone" signs and I am all for telling people to be quiet in the movies. I miss those tough (but sophisticated) NYC movie audiences who generally would not stand for obnoxious people in the movies and you could count on your fellow audience members to back you up if you confronted somebody. Yesterday I also turned around at the movies and glared at the man who kept coughing behind me. Why the hell would you go to the movies if you have a bad cough. What is wrong with people?? I've also told people to keep their voices down on airplanes. If I can still hear you above my music, you're too fucking loud. I will probably be one of those grouchy old people always telling people to be quiet because I'm old and earned the right to boss people around, lol.

 

[Liesje]

ABSOLUTLY!

My brother told me this story just a couple of weeks ago. He works at a large home improvement warehouse kinda store, and a customer he was dealing with had a couple of children with him. The kids were bring brats, climbing all over stuff and all. Well, they started climbing on this big flatbed lumber cart and my brother told them kindly, but firmly, to get off, which they did. (it is posted company policy that no one is allowed to be on those carts.)

The father when ballistic! He told my brother never to speak to his childern, that they were his kids and he would tell them what to do (he had told them to get down, but apparently his kids don't give a crap because they ignored him completely), and complained that other stores allowed his kids to do stuff like that. He didn't seem to care that his "precious" little brats could get hurt or killed, he just cared that someone else spoke to them.

What a fucking moron.

wow

I think your story proves the point I've had in my mind that kids aren't properly taught how to respect adult authority in general these days. Some will listen to their parents, but the second mom or dad isn't around to give the stink-eye, they'll walk all over you.

One of my professors has a 4 year old boy. He came to the gymnastics club where my boyfriend works with a group of other kids and my boyfriend told me how polite and well-behaved he was. When I mentioned this to my prof. she says she makes a conscious effort to teach him to respect authority. You can do it without making them fear authority or without yelling or spanking. For example, this little boy calls his babysitters "Ms. so-and-so" and would have to call my boyfriend Mr. Phil or Coach Phil instead of just "hey Phil!".

 

[AvsGirl41]

When I was a receptionist at a hair salon, we had a sign up about "Please do not leave children unattended--there is glass, sharp objects and other dangerous items here." One drippy woman actually read the sign, looked at me and said to her son, "Let us go outside, away from the nasty little sign." They went outside and she sat crooning to him...at least he wasn't running amuck, but

But businesses are often willing to let parents get away with anything in order to get their money. I worked in the Kid's Department at Barnes and Noble, and parents would often dump their kids off assuming we'd babysit them. Of course, they didn't notify us, so we'd end up with a lost, hysterical child who would refuse to tell us their name. And of course, we'd have the kids who would tear up the shelves, rip apart books, open packages...whatever they wanted as their parents sipped latte in the coffee shop.

The situation became downright dangerous when we had a man lurking who was exposing himself to children. He knew us all by sight and would time it just so. When we asked management if we could put up signs, at the very least asking parents not to leave children unattended, we were informed it was "negative signage." They wanted people "to feel as though they were in their living rooms."

Apparently it doesn't matter if you are a paying customer disrupted by the children, however....

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

The situation became downright dangerous when we had a man lurking who was exposing himself to children. He knew us all by sight and would time it just so. When we asked management if we could put up signs, at the very least asking parents not to leave children unattended, we were informed it was "negative signage." They wanted people "to feel as though they were in their living rooms."

So there are perverts in their living rooms?

Maybe some of these parents are offended by signs because they're defensive about their parenting skills for a reason, if it doesn't apply to you what reason would you have to be offended?

 

[Golightly Grrl]

I’ve been following this story since it was a feature story in the New York Times. I doubt Mr. McCauley put the sign up because he has a black, cold heart. He probably had huge problems with with badly behaved children and their unconcerned parents and most likely heard complaints from both customers and his staff. According to the Times article, a bunch of moms got their panties in a wad, claimed discrimination, threatened to boycott Mr. McCauley’s coffee shop, blah, blah, soccer mom cakes. However, once word got out that Mr. McCauley had this sign up in his shop and children and parents were expected to be respectful towards others, his business tripled and he got supportive calls and letters from all over the world; I sent him a “thank you” card.

I think discipline has become a bad word among some parents. They think discipline means harsh punishment and spanking or discipline will destroy their children’s self-esteem. Well, discipline hardly means beating your children. I know many wonderful parents who discipline without spanking. Damn, my mother could discipline us with a “look.” And as for self-esteem, well, I think we need to be less concerned about children’s self-esteem and more concerned about their character.

Yet, other than a few conversations with my friends, and discussing this on-line, I feel like I’m being totally unheard. When I do voice my opinions on unruly children and the parents who refuse to teach them manners and respect for others, I get branded a child-hater or anti-family. And being a childfree women makes those accusations are even more spiteful because some parents think I have no right to an opinion because I don’t have kids.

I don’t hate children. I absolutely adore smart, kind, well-mannered, funny kids. And I’m very appreciative of parents who are raising them to be that way. However, I just wish I ran into more children and parents like this. I’ve become sick and tired of ill-behaved children and “don’t give a shit” parents wherever I go-the movie theater, high-end restaurants, the mall, etc. Even my parents’ church has become like Romper Room.

When I was at Alverno, many of my fellow students had no qualms about bringing their children to class, the computer center, and the library. These kids would often run around and scream causing a great deal of stress for other students. The mothers did not give a shit how their children were affecting their classmates. One mother even said to us, “It’s a women’s college. Get used to it.” She also bragged about throwing her baby’s dirty diapers into the school parking lot. (However, it was sweet shadenfreude when I graduated with honors and she didn’t.) My co-editor of the school paper was so ticked about moms bringing their kids to every nook and cranny of the school, she wrote an editorial for the school paper about this issue. Plenty of the moms got up in arms, but a majority of the students, faculty, and staff supported her 100% (many who had kids themselves). Having kids running around the school was an insurance liability and they often were too distracting to the learning process. And yes, my school did have a day care center. Don’t know why the moms didn’t take advantage of it.

And just what do parents think they’re accomplishing by not disciplining their children? Do they think good manners and respect are automatically going to appear once their kids go to college and enter the workplace?

BTW, does anyone watch “Nanny 911” or “Super Nanny?” Those shows make my tubes tie themselves!

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

BTW, does anyone watch “Nanny 911” or “Super Nanny?” Those shows make my tubes tie themselves!



Yes I've seen that Super Nanny the one w/ the British nanny, right?

Yes I feel like I can't and shouldn't say anything because I don't have kids, so mostly I just mutter and scream on the inside and thank my lucky stars that I don't

I think w/ a little effort you can perfectly balance self esteem with discipline. I know from my own childhood how that wasn't done, so maybe I would have an inkling how to go about it.

 

[nbcrusader]

BTW, does anyone watch “Nanny 911” or “Super Nanny?” Those shows make my tubes tie themselves!

While some of it is eggagerated for television, it is amazing to see these children running the household.

 

[Sue DeNym]

I love children...it's BRATS that I can't stand!

Speaking as the mother of a very active four-year-old boy...

...I wholeheartedly approve of that sign.

Another forum I am on discussed this story last month, and all of us, parents or otherwise, agreed completely with the store owner's sign and his reasons. We've had it up to here with ill-behaved brats and their laissez-faire parents. Since this was discussed on a customer-service board, we can also relate to AvsGirl41:

I worked in the Kid's Department at Barnes and Noble, and parents would often dump their kids off assuming we'd babysit them. Of course, they didn't notify us, so we'd end up with a lost, hysterical child who would refuse to tell us their name. And of course, we'd have the kids who would tear up the shelves, rip apart books, open packages...whatever they wanted as their parents sipped latte in the coffee shop.

And if the kids get injured on your property, you just know the parents are going to raise holy hell and take you to court.

Another thing that ticks me off is the volume level of these brats. When did it become acceptable for children to constantly shriek like they're being chased by Freddie Krueger?! Nothing quite like sitting down to a enjoy a nice dinner, and having some pint-sized banshee go "AAAAIIIIIEEEEEEEKKKKKKK!!!!!!!" right in your ear. Anybody who has the decency to insist that children use their "indoor voices" while they are indeed indoors has my approval!

 

[U2DMfan]

about the 'going to the movies' problem

I always go to matinees.
noon on a tuesday (or whatever)
about 5 people in the theatre and all of them are old enough to be your grandparents.

And if there is a kid, the parents usually feel a need to calm down the noise, because at that point any noise becomes pretty obvious. That and you can sit a mile away from them.

granted if you work 'normal people' hours, it can be hard to do.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

Re: I love children...it's BRATS that I can't stand!

Speaking as the mother of a very active four-year-old boy...
...I wholeheartedly approve of that sign.
Another forum I am on discussed this story last month, and all of us, parents or otherwise, agreed completely with the store owner's sign and his reasons. We've had it up to here with ill-behaved brats and their laissez-faire parents

thanks for posting, I appreciate your input there are many parents who feel that way, I would never want to lump them all together and offend them in the process

 

[MsGiggles]

I'm one of those people who is also opposed of spanking. There are other ways of punishing your kid that would hurt them ten times more than a spanking - take away the tv, games, stereo, ipod, etc. from them and leave nothing but books. Don't let me hear ya say I have nothing to do - read a book!!

 

[Golightly Grrl]

Thanks for your post, Sue. I nominate you mother of the year!

 

[Liesje]

While some of it is eggagerated for television, it is amazing to see these children running the household.

It's not always exagerated, I've babysat kids like some of those before.

Of course, like pretty much everyone has pointed out, it's all the parent's fault.

 

[beegee]

Yes. Parents find it easier to give them some $$ and drop them off at the mall. From my observations, the amount of interaction between parents and children drops significantly at age 12-13.

my daughter is twelve and that would be the day that i would ever drop her off in a mall. i can't even imagine it. however, some of her friends are thirteen already and being dropped of at the mall is a common thing.

it all depends on the parents.

my daughter became friends with a girl recently who spent the entire weekend at my house and never once called home. i was shocked. i asked her several times if she wanted to call home just to check in and each time she kind of shrugged at me and said no. i had also never met her parents. i could be running a crack den over here and her parents would never know.

but these children are not at fault. it always comes back to the parents.

 

[nbcrusader]

it always comes back to the parents.

Absolutely.

Too bad we've lost interest on a national level in parenting.

 

[Golightly Grrl]

Absolutely.

Too bad we've lost interest on a national level in parenting.

Yes, and why is that? Why are we no longer holding parents accountable for their offspring and blaming everything else? The government, the workplace, the media, the marketing industry, the schools, etc., have all been blamed for children's bad behavior, yet parents get off scot-free. I don't get it.

 

[stammer476]

Yes, and why is that? Why are we no longer holding parents accountable for their offspring and blaming everything else? The government, the workplace, the media, the marketing industry, the schools, etc., have all been blamed for children's bad behavior, yet parents get off scot-free. I don't get it.

Because it takes a village to raise a child.

 

[Irvine511]

Because it takes a village to raise a child.

hey -- Hillary's right: it does take a village.

i am who i am today because of the dozens and dozens of adults, beyond my parents, who took an active interest in my welfare and well being. and i can't thank them enough.

 

[stammer476]

hey -- Hillary's right: it does take a village.

i am who i am today because of the dozens and dozens of adults, beyond my parents, who took an active interest in my welfare and well being. and i can't thank them enough.

Agreed. In fact, I get paid to be one of those people.

But in response to Golightly Grrl's post, at what point do we have to stop blaming the village and start blaming the parents?

 

[Irvine511]

Agreed. In fact, I get paid to be one of those people.

But in response to Golightly Grrl's post, at what point do we have to stop blaming the village and start blaming the parents?

very cool.

to the second question, i really don't know ... having been part of that village as a teacher and coach, i often see parents trying to blame the village for anything less than the worship of their child ... i suppose parents are ground zero, but if the village is bad, as it were, then there is often only so much a parent can do. i also think that sometimes we're a bit too hard on parents, since i really do think that most do the best they can ... though in the urban village i currently live in, there are many, many parents who would benefit tremendously from simple parenting lessons. it's appaling some of the stuff i see at the supermarket, on the metro, and walking down the street, and it gives one good insight into how destructive generations of near-poverty is ... it seems like many of these kids are already doomed to stay at the poverty level from the day they are born due to the non-willfull ignorance of their parents.

but then i sound patronizing.

*sigh*

what's a white liberal to think in the big, bad city?

 

[stammer476]

i suppose parents are ground zero, but if the village is bad, as it were, then there is often only so much a parent can do. i also think that sometimes we're a bit too hard on parents, since i really do think that most do the best they can

It's hard for me to let parents off with the idea that they're doing "the best they can." Children deserve more than the "best" of their parents if that best isn't very good. Simplistic, certainly, but I can't help that.

though in the urban village i currently live in, there are many, many parents who would benefit tremendously from simple parenting lessons.

Same thing is true in the suburban village I live in. What is most shocking in my experience, though, is how many parents REFUSE any help. Maybe it's a pride issue, I don't know. But from what I've seen, too many parents have an "us against them" philosophy when it comes to other adults. No one can tell them how to raise their child, or impede on their parental territory.

 

[sharky]

So many things to respond to. First, let me say I have great parents. I did get spanked on occasion. I also got the reach around when I was in the car [Mom would reach around the seat and grab my leg] and the arm grab. My parents would be considered child abusers now. That being said, those things happened rarely mainly because they threated us ahead of time. "There are fragile things in this store. DO NOT touch anything." I never asked "Or what are you going to do?" I just didn't touch anything.

I think the bigger issue is that my parents took an interest in my sister and I. When I came home from school, it was always "What did you do today? Who did you eat with at lunch? What did you talk about?" It was so subtle that I never picked up on the fact that my parents were keeping tabs on me. In fact, I remember my senior year prom. We all went over to a friend's house and a bunch of us just spent the night there instead of driving home. I called my mom and said "Can we change plans? Becky's mom invited us to spend the night. Is that ok?" My mom had no problem with it because she knew Becky, knew Becky's parents, and knew the biggest trouble we would get in was staying up until 3 a.m. watching movies. But she knew that because she took an interest in me.

As for kids today, it's been a trend. Remember all those stories about kids not playing dodge ball because it was mean or you couldn't award a first place in something because the other kids would feel bad? I don't mean this to sound offensive, but when I played dodge ball, me and the mentally challenged kid were always the last two to be picked for a team and sometimes the mentally challenged kid got picked before me. And when the game started, I got a beating first. Despite that, I'm a pretty well adjusted person. I think.

As for the kids in the movies, an NYC theater was doing this great Mommy & Me thing where one movie showing a week was specifically set aside for moms. You could bring the kids to let them run around, breast feed your baby in the theater, etc. Got the moms to the movies, no baby sitting money needed, and no one had a problem with kids in the theater because everyone had kids in the theater.

So in the end, the sign is fine. I thought it was actually funny when I first read it. "Children of all ages have to behave" makes it sound like there were some adults who were not acting properly. Well, if you can't keep your kid in line, you probably have to behave better.

 

[nbcrusader]

hey -- Hillary's right: it does take a village.

I guess a lot depends on what is the "village".

If "village" means friends, family and neighbors, then yes - mutual help and support on a personal level can very well be beneficial.

If "village" means government - it is dead wrong.

 

[Irvine511]

I guess a lot depends on what is the "village".

If "village" means friends, family and neighbors, then yes - mutual help and support on a personal level can very well be beneficial.

If "village" means government - it is dead wrong.

why can't it be all these things?

i personally enjoyed the public school i went to, the public swimming pool i first learned to swim at and then became a lifeguard, swim instructor, and swim team coach.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

Sometimes the government is all that's left to step in and save a child, literally or otherwise

It saves the government money and many other things in the long run to be involved with kids when it's necessary

 

[Irvine511]

Sometimes the government is all that's left to step in and save a child, literally or otherwise

It saves the government money and many other things in the long run to be involved with kids when it's necessary

great point, Mrs. S.

it's foolish, and incorrect, to work under the assumption that all children have good families, or even functioning families.

 

[sharky]

great point, Mrs. S.

it's foolish, and incorrect, to work under the assumption that all children have good families, or even functioning families.

Yeah, but I think NBC's point is that you can't rely on the government to actually raise the child. I didn't mind public school either [despite the fact that I went to a Catholic high school I loved]. But I would say part of the problem in some cases is the parents see the government and specifically public schools as the panacea -- parents expect the schools to discipline and teach their kids. I have a friend who is a first grade teacher and is frankly the ONLY person in the lives of some of her students that is interested in their learning.

It can also be the other extreme with parents who take too much interest in their kids' education. The whole dodge ball issue and first place crap is based on school board [government] decisions after complaints from parents. If my future kid comes in second place in the science fair, I'll be proud. She her report on evolution [only intelligent design is acceptable] or sexually transmitted diseases [it will only encourage kids to have sex].

 

[nbcrusader]

it's foolish, and incorrect, to work under the assumption that all children have good families, or even functioning families.

This is exactly where you will get opposition to the "village" concept. The government determines what is "good" or "functioning" and then decides to take over the role of parent. This creates even less incentive for people to act as parents because they can abdicate responsibility to the government.

 

[Irvine511]

This is exactly where you will get opposition to the "village" concept. The government determines what is "good" or "functioning" and then decides to take over the role of parent. This creates even less incentive for people to act as parents because they can abdicate responsibility to the government.

so, by this line of thought, parents abuse and neglect their children and leave them tied up in closets because they have no incentives to take care of their children because they expect the government to do it?

who, then, decides what constitutes an abusive home?