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Old 10-20-2002, 12:49 PM   #16
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Oh, and Dreadsox, that was cute.


Yeah, real cute.
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Old 10-20-2002, 02:02 PM   #17
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Oh, and Dreadsox, that was cute.


Yeah, real cute.

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Old 10-20-2002, 02:09 PM   #18
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Originally posted by garibaldo
I certainly hope that the point of this thread wasn't just to elicite sympathy from non-virgins. These girls do have something to proud of and I think it's wrong of any of you to put them down because of it

So I, and millions of other women who made life-changing decisions after an awful lot of thought and support from committed partners, have something to be ashamed of?
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Old 10-20-2002, 02:19 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by garibaldo
I certainly hope that the point of this thread wasn't just to elicite sympathy from non-virgins. These girls do have something to proud of and I think it's wrong of any of you to put them down because of it
imho there isn't anything special about being a virgin or not being a virgin. one isn't something to be proud of more than the other. however i think individuals can be proud of themselves for making the right decision for them - ie to stay a virgin if they want to for religious reasons or to avoid pregnancy or because they haven't met the right partner, or to have lost their virginity because they met someone they loved and wanted to be with in that way.

am i making sense? there isn't anything inherently good or bad about being a virgin or not being a virgin but there's something to be proud of if you've made the best decision for yourself on the subject.

sorry if that's confusing, i hardly ever make sense
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Old 10-20-2002, 04:07 PM   #20
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Originally posted by paxetaurora


So I, and millions of other women who made life-changing decisions after an awful lot of thought and support from committed partners, have something to be ashamed of?
Oh, please! Let's not glamorize what you did or what other women do on a daily\monthly (hourly? ) basis. If you think that most women had to wrestle with this decision "after an awful lot of thought and support" you're kidding yourself. Most women have sex without all the communal collaboration. If this were the case, you wouldn't be seeing the astronomical number of teenage pregnancies and STDs we're seeing today.

Martha, I don't think you can assume that they were trying to make her feel bad from what she said. I don't think they were trying to give her some "shit", though I might be wrong. I think you assume that in your mind because you stereotype virgins.

"If I've made you uncomfortable about decisions you've made, or made you think too hard, that's not my problem."

What decision could I have made that would make me feel worse than the decisions you've made? You're not a virgin. Are you claiming that keeping one's virginity is something to be ashamed of? Or were you talking about beastiality?

MollyRose, I disagree. The hardest thing in my life is to stay a virgin (esp considering the fine women walking around Cambridge ), but I choose to do so for religious reasons. I can't even form normal relationships because most women in their early 20's expect to have sex in the course of a relationship and VERY few of you are saving it until marriage. Plus, there is the temptation! Yes, unlike Martha's stereotype, I have faced temptation. OHHHH the tragedy of it all! Still, I don't agree that one can simply just blur the lines of morality to make everyone feel good. I still think that morality isn't for everyone's subject manipulation. There is good and bad. Of course, that's just my opinion.

Just to clarify, this is ME giving YOU shit.
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Old 10-20-2002, 04:21 PM   #21
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hi garibaldo,

that was exactly my point though, that obviously for you staying a virgin is the right thing to do because of your religious convictions. i'm sure it's not easy and that's why you have every right to be proud of making the right decision for you and sticking to it!

however, don't you also accept that someone might be proud of their decision only to lose their virginity when they're with a partner they love, even if for them it doesn't mean waiting until marraige? your personal beliefs may be that it's wrong to have sex outside of marraige, but others have different beliefs and i don't think you (or anyone else, of course, i'm not singling you out!) should make others feel bad because their moral beliefs differ from yours and they live their life according to their own moral beliefs, not yours!

molly

p.s. if the "this is me giving you shit" comment was directed at me then i'm not sure what i've said to offend you, but i apologise if you are offended and i hope we can have a friendly conversation from now on.
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Old 10-20-2002, 04:49 PM   #22
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I was kidding about the giving you shit part. My point was that I don't think morality is just relative, so sex before marriage seems immoral to me. Now, that doesn't necessarily say that I look at non-virgins as bad people. I don't really care what you're doing except in the sense that it creates a negative cultural stereotype of virgins as uptight or losers, which adversely affects me. The whole freelove movement of the 60's is a bane to my existence.

I don't aim to make non-virgins feel bad. I wouldn't have this conversation with a non-virgin unless it was brought up by someone else first (like it was here). So, I don't step out my door looking for every non-virgin so that I can tell them how bad they are.
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Old 10-20-2002, 05:06 PM   #23
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im ok w -
good girls
and
bad girls..

db9
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Old 10-20-2002, 06:52 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by garibaldo



My goodness, you do go on, don't you?
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Old 10-20-2002, 07:14 PM   #25
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Hey! Leave band camp outta this!
*loves band camp*
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Old 10-20-2002, 07:47 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by martha
The high and mighty also fall, and when they do, it's a long way down.
yep. the youth leader at my old church acted like she was better than everyone (well, in retrospect, everyone there did), and then one time we separated into girl and boy groups and for some reason, we went into the chick's bedroom who was hosting the meeting.

we got on the subject of virginity, and our youth leader, who's not married, never has been married, and has never even come close, admitted she's not a virgin. that was one of the nails in the coffin for that church. i don't have a problem with people having sex before marriage, but to act all high and mighty, and constantly point out how other people can "do better" in their life by tattooing WWJD on their forehead and then admit that, is just fucking hypocritical.

that is all.
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Old 10-20-2002, 07:49 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by garibaldo
Let's not accuse people of stereotyping.
yes, let's not stereotype.

that means you too, you know.
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Old 10-20-2002, 08:15 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by KhanadaRhodes

yes, let's not stereotype.

that means you too, you know.
I told her not to accuse people of stereotyping. I didn't tell her not to stereotype. DUH! Which means I have no obligation to do the same.

Seriously, I think the point of your stupid church story was to point out just how hypocritical churchgoers can be. Wow! A liberal attacking hypocritical Christians, let me go call Guiness.
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Old 10-20-2002, 10:50 PM   #29
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Originally posted by deep



No one can make you feel this way, but yourself.

Guilt, shame, embarrassment all require your cooperation.
It is whatís in your heart that matters.
It is amazing....

The most intelligent part of this thread occured on the second post.

People cannot make you feel badly unless you allow it to happen.
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Old 10-21-2002, 03:41 AM   #30
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This is interesting. I think a large part of this is actually about stereotyping. Its a real shame it can be so easy for some to do as well. It can be easy to assume a girl or young guy (or someone not even young) might be a bit uptight or see themselves as morally superior, yet we will very rarely know the real reason why someone abstains - unless they state it. Chances are, it is because of a deep religious conviction, or a genuine fear of making that step that holds someone back, or perhaps even taking the romantic aspect of knowing it is best for you to wait until you meet that very special person. There are probably hundreds of reasons why people wait. We can only ever know our own reasons. That said, the same can be for those who may not see sex as a, I guess, significant event, can be deemed as somehow immoral. I dont personally see a huge problem with either choice that is made, to wait, or not to wait. It can become a problem when an ignorant outsider could challenge your position as they may have made some assumptions and pegged you based on an incorrect assessment of your moral values. Either way that goes, it is frustrating. we should only ever do what we feel comfortable doing. We cannot think we are making a mistake with our choices because it conflicts with someone else's.
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