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Old 12-16-2003, 06:44 PM   #31
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FizzingWhizzbees

Thanks for your post and I second it, over and over!!!
Well Said
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Old 12-16-2003, 06:47 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally posted by Katey


People who stood by and watched thosee trains were ordinary citizens like you and I not as you called them . The comparison is that they new where those trains were going and did nothing, we too know where this train is going so we make a decision to help or not, it is a personal decision but still one we have to justify like the people who watched the trains go by.

I'm not sure how you got Nazi out of it
hey, if I am out of line...my apologies....I guess it is acceptable to place me a member of the forum in these shoes based on my questions and positions...

perfectly fair and reasonsable....

I appreciate it....makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.
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Old 12-16-2003, 06:55 PM   #33
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FYI If i remember correctly...I was one of the people complaining about the over use of the term in this forum in reference to people comparing Conservative members of the forum in this light as well as Americans in general. So again, my apologies. I was not calling anyone by the name if you reread what I said. In this case it probably was an overreaction, yet, somehow, I am equally offended by the mischaracterization of my questions, the things I have said, and the intent of the thread, in comparison to Auchwitz. There are many reasons why the comparison is particularly offensive to me without getting into it.
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Old 12-16-2003, 06:57 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by Katey


People who stood by and watched thosee trains were ordinary citizens like you and I not as you called them . The comparison is that they new where those trains were going and did nothing, we too know where this train is going so we make a decision to help or not, it is a personal decision but still one we have to justify like the people who watched the trains go by.

I'm not sure how you got Nazi out of it
I'm not sure how you can NOT get the implication out of your statement.
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Old 12-16-2003, 07:00 PM   #35
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It wasn't Katey's statement in the first place. And in any case, the statement talked about those who *watched* trains leaving for Auschwitz. The people who watched it happen weren't necessarily Nazis, they were people who were either unable or unwilling to do anything about what was happening.
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Old 12-16-2003, 07:04 PM   #36
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Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees
The people who watched it happen weren't necessarily Nazis

Cute distinction
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Old 12-16-2003, 07:05 PM   #37
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NB...let it go....thanks

It is clearly OK to do this to members of the forum.....

ANTI-War people must have supported Saddam and the mass graves they are uncovering....sitting by allowing the sand pits to be filled.


I would never condone a statement like that, nor have I made a statement like that in this forum......but it is fair to make statements like this towards conservatives. It is on the same level.
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Old 12-16-2003, 07:41 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by Blacksword
The wealth of the United States and it's industrialization was built on slavery.
Society, as a whole, is built on slavery. The Roman Empire had slaves of the territories it conquered. Europe, Russia, and parts of Asia had feudalism, which is just a fancy word for "slavery." African tribes had slaves of the tribes they conquered, and, frankly, American slaves would not have been as numerous, had it not been for the zeal of some African tribal leaders to make money off of the people they defeated in battle, nor would American slaves have likely existed, had the Dutch slave trade not started it off.

None of this makes slavery okay, but this isn't exclusively an American issue.

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Old 12-16-2003, 08:56 PM   #39
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I think Jesus said it best-

Jesus taught that charity and compassion should not be forced, it should be voluntary.
He also said that our charity and compassion should not be staged and acts of kindness should be real as he recognizes our true intentions..

17-27 17As he was going out into the way, one ran to him, knelt before him, and asked him, “Good Teacher, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?”

18Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good except one—God. 19You know the commandments: ‘Do not murder,’ ‘Do not commit adultery,’ ‘Do not steal,’ ‘Do not give false testimony,’ ‘Do not defraud,’ ‘Honor your father and mother.’”

20He said to him, “Teacher, I have observed all these things from my youth.”

21Jesus looking at him loved him, and said to him, “One thing you lack. Go, sell whatever you have, and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me, taking up the cross.”

22But his face fell at that saying, and he went away sorrowful, for he was one who had great possessions. 23Jesus looked around, and said to his disciples, “How difficult it is for those who have riches to enter into the Kingdom of God!”

24The disciples were amazed at his words. But Jesus answered again, “Children, how hard is it for those who trust in riches to enter into the Kingdom of God! 25It is easier for a camel to go through a needle’s eye than for a rich man to enter into the Kingdom of God.”

26They were exceedingly astonished, saying to him, “Then who can be saved?”

27Jesus, looking at them, said, “With men it is impossible, but not with God, for all things are possible with God.”
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Old 12-16-2003, 09:42 PM   #40
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okay wow.. I was just tryin to clarify the Train bit from a post before me. Tongue in cheek.. my apologies I take everything said in here with a grain of salt and as a fortunate opportunity to learn other peoples view if I percieve them as right in my opinion or not thats another story

I live everyday with the memory of my Nana who lived through concentration camps.. her stories are lodged deep in my head . Her words and wishes for me were always

"I hope for you .. that you never have to ever live threw such even 1 day that I saw, you think you know hunger, you think you know pain.. I tell you I hope you never really know"

She is a strong women .. she lived through a horrible time , she came threw but she never forgot, she did though learn to forgive.
She came back married an Irishmen for Bray and I carry both of their heritage never to be forgotten but to be learned from. What they both gave me as well is the knowledge that a life in the third world is every bit as important as my own. How fortunate I am to live in Canada I am reminded of everyday I carry that close to my heart , and never far from my mind is the knowledge that with twist of fate my life could be so much different. it is why I don not $10.00 or less of my tax money going to people thatlive on less the a dollar a day
It's where my passion comes from on these subjects, it's why my heart is so devoted to the cause in Africa to my neighbours. So If because of this I offend anyone I apologise for the offense but not for my stance

Deadsox .. I do not take lightly the whole history trust me The term Nazi. I refuse to stand by when anyones humans rights are in question , thats what is happening in Africa make any argument you want.. Why then have the UN .. listen to Kofi Annen , listen to Colin Powell speak and try to justify not having part of you tax money designated to a nation that will be wiped out if we do nothing.. Because Charity is not enough.


My rant is really done
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Old 12-16-2003, 09:49 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally posted by diamond
I think Jesus said it best-

Jesus taught that charity and compassion should not be forced, it should be voluntary.
He also said that our charity and compassion should not be staged and acts of kindness should be real as he recognizes our true intentions..

I agree and this was the point I was trying to make earlier. It shouldn't be forced. This is a representative government we vote for the canidate that will take care of the issues we stand for. Not everything we spend our tax dollars on will be something you completely agree with.
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Old 12-16-2003, 10:13 PM   #42
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ANTI-War people must have supported Saddam and the mass graves they are uncovering....sitting by allowing the sand pits to be filled.
that .....what is that... I didnt say maybe it might have been fear that let people stand by and do nothing or other reasons .. just that they stood by it begs the question why???
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Old 12-17-2003, 12:30 AM   #43
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Originally posted by Dreadsox
Sincere questions.....not sarcasm.

How am I responsible for colonialism? how are my children responsible for colonialism? Overpopulation is our fault how?
Was better answered by somebody in this thread so I won't attempt it.

But how about noblesse oblige? You may not have directly owned a slave, but you are prospering largely because of them. Had you been born to a life of misery in the third world, I would want the best for you. Our governments are in positions of power and luxury because of our collective history, regardless of your children. Your child is not responsible for colonialism, but your child was blessed to be born in one of the most prosperous, free nations in the world, and I believe your child has a responsibility to the rest of the world. I believe I do. Hence, noblesse oblige. And if the government sends out money on your behalf or that of your daughter, I believe that is their duty as well. JMO.

Frankly, these taxes are like a fart in the wind for us, it's not a big deal and I can assure you that you would rather pay them than be living in a refugee camp in the Congo. Every day of the week and twice on Sunday, so at the end of the day, really, is it a sticking point? I don't really think it is for most people.

Quote:
I am not certain I meant to mix in medical issues with this topic...I am not sure how it would fit.
Of course it fits, because for example, Bono is arguing for funding for medicine for AIDS. Other forms of funding are essential for cancer, diabetes, CF, Alzheimer's, MS, etc. It is not enough for you to donate to the Cancer Society - our governments need to fund this research, as charity won't support it. AIDS was once shunned by the Reagan administration - turned out to be a huge, colossal mistake, did it not? I think that's why we need to ensure funding for causes that sometimes may not be the most pleasant for large segments of the population, because in the longterm, it pays off.


*Edited because as much as I dislike Reagan, I'd like to afford him the respect of having his name spelled correctly.
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Old 12-17-2003, 01:17 AM   #44
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Pay, then pay again.

I say mostly free will. Unfortunately a lot of charity relies on government assistance though as this free society of ours is not as generous as we'd like to think we are.
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Old 12-17-2003, 04:32 AM   #45
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Quote:
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Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees
The people who watched it happen weren't necessarily Nazis
Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader



Cute distinction
You think that everyone in Germany who saw their Jewish neighbours disappearing and didn't do anything about it was a Nazi? You think people in countries across Europe (and the rest of the world for that matter) who were fully aware of Hitler's atrocities long before 1939 were Nazis?

People were aware of what the Nazis were doing and they didn't act. Maybe it was because they were afraid of the consequences to them had they spoken up, maybe it's because they believed they couldn't do anything about it, maybe it's for one of a whole host of other reasons. It wasn't because they were Nazis.
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