Chappaquiddick- Ted Kennedy's OJ moment

[U2Kitten]

The recent news of Bono attending a 'tribute' for this man led my old distaste for him to come back to the surface. As far as I'm concerned he killed that girl, he wanted her out of the way. He probably didn't intend to drive off the bridge into the water, after all he was drunk and driving on a suspended liscense, but we will never know. What we do know is he escaped without any real attempt to save her, walked down the road never asking anyone for help, and waited 8 hours to report the accident. By then Mary Jo Kopechne and all she knew on Ted were gone. I don't want to bring up the Marilyn Monroe conspiracy theory, but it does seem the Kennedys are able to eliminate mistresses who have outlived their usefulness and may cause trouble later.

If any ordinary person had done what Ted did, they'd be sitting in jail probably to this day, not having a long career in the Senate and being honored. In that way, he is like OJ, his name and money allowed him to walk away from something none of us could have. This is not a conspiracy theory, this is not only a scandal, this is history.

http://www.gfsnet.org/msweb/sixties/chappaquiddick.html

http://www.ytedk.com/intro.htm

 

[melon]

You're right on one thing: it IS history! It'll certainly be the thing that dogs him until he dies. But it is over, and, no, Ted probably wouldn't be sitting in jail to this day. They don't sentence manslaughter to 30+ years, and certainly not back then.

But it shouldn't negate the (debateable, of course, depending on your political leanings) good he has done in the Senate since. The people of Massachusetts continue reelect him, in spite of what happened (it isn't like it is a secret!), and, as far as everyone but Republicans are concerned it is ancient history.

Melon

 

[U2Kitten]

I just don't think it's fair for anyone, regardless of money or party, to get away with something like that because of who they are. Gary Hart was ruined by the Donna Rice scandal. This is a dead girl. If it were someone you loved that died, would it be good enough to say, oh well, it's history, it's in the past? If that's the case, we might as well all go kill someone who is a problem in our lives and then lie and wait several years and say, oh forget it, it's in the past! No, this SHOULD dog him the rest of his life. They say it cost him the White House, it should have at least cost him his political career if not his freedom. Poor people are sitting in jail for much less.

 

[U2Kitten]

And also, if he had done things in the Senate that you disapproved of, would you have wished he'd been in jail instead? Is the death of that girl justified because you needed his vote in congress?

 

[verte76]

I agree U2Kitten there's something terribly unfair about this. I have never liked this guy either. If I'd had anything to do with someone's death like that I'd be rotting in a jail cell. Ugh.

 

[BVS]

I just don't think it's fair for anyone, regardless of money or party, to get away with something like that because of who they are.

Welcome to America, home of the free and justice to all (that have money and power). Just look at our president.

 

[Seabird]

I remember doing a class project on this in my senior year government class back in '79, the 10 year anniversary of it. The teacher, a man who had emigrated from Greece stowed away on a merchant marine tanker at age 11 and worked his way though college, had saved all the news stories on it from his college days since it had upset him and intrigued him so much. We got all the evidence and the class had a 'trial' for Kennedy. He was found unanimously guilty, 30-0. The thing I could never get past was that he literally ran on foot past a brightly lit fire station about a half mile from the water. If he had intended to save Mary Jo, he could easily have ran in there for help!

 

[U2Kitten]

Welcome to America, home of the free and justice to all (that have money and power). Just look at our president.

Ah I see. So everything has to come back to Bush, and because you think he's soooo bad everyone else is excused of everything? If Bush had done this, the thread would have had 188 responses by now. Nobody wants to think ill of their beloved Kennedys so most of you selectively ignore this.

 

[FullonEdge]

nicely said U2Kitten!

 

[RockNRollDawgie]

To equate Teddy Kennedy with OJ is just plain wrong!

Ok...Ted wants to kill her. They both get drunk. SHE is this one driving ove the bridge. Did Ted use mind control to make her drive off the bridge?
In no way do I believe this was some pre-planned murder.

 

[melon]

I just don't think it's fair for anyone, regardless of money or party, to get away with something like that because of who they are. Gary Hart was ruined by the Donna Rice scandal. This is a dead girl. If it were someone you loved that died, would it be good enough to say, oh well, it's history, it's in the past? If that's the case, we might as well all go kill someone who is a problem in our lives and then lie and wait several years and say, oh forget it, it's in the past! No, this SHOULD dog him the rest of his life. They say it cost him the White House, it should have at least cost him his political career if not his freedom. Poor people are sitting in jail for much less.

Gary Hart was ruined by the Donna Rice scandal. It doesn't mean that he should have been ruined by it.

And this is a tough call. If he had been sent to prison and ruined, then he wouldn't have been able to do the good he has done as a senior Democratic senator (again, debateable, depending on your political leanings, and perhaps that's for another thread). I guess, in some ways, this has to be connected to the issue of "forgiveness" and "rehabilitation." People inevitably make mistakes, some very minor and some very serious, like the issue here. When is it time to let go?

I'm mindful of the fact that, had this been a Republican, the debate might have taken a different turn. But I will say that, at least for me, a lot of my swipes at Republicans tend to be out of vengeance. It's the same kind of glee I get out of watching a judgmental televangelist get nailed for tax evasion or be caught having an extramarital affair. "Judge not, lest ye be judged." The question, regardless of one's political affiliation, though, is when is it time to let go? And I really don't know the answer to this question.

Sen. Kennedy will have to answer to God someday, and since he has not since posed a threat to society, I'm willing to let him deal with his conscience.

Melon

 

[melon]

To equate Teddy Kennedy with OJ is just plain wrong!

Ok...Ted wants to kill her. They both get drunk. SHE is this one driving ove the bridge. Did Ted use mind control to make her drive off the bridge?
In no way do I believe this was some pre-planned murder.

Good point as well.

Melon

 

[BVS]

Ah I see. So everything has to come back to Bush, and because you think he's soooo bad everyone else is excused of everything? If Bush had done this, the thread would have had 188 responses by now. Nobody wants to think ill of their beloved Kennedys so most of you selectively ignore this.

Well actually I never equated Bush with this act but rather equated him with the privelaged who get off scott free. No one is excused of anything. The Kennedys aren't beloved to me. But...you are one of the most partisan people in this forum yet you accuse everyone else of being so. So I pretty much threw the Bush thing out there to see if you would bite and you did.

 

[BluberryPoptart]

Leaving the scene of an accident is a crime, as is not helping a person in need. In France, it carries jail time, I don't know about here. It looks to me like, even though he didn't plan to kill her, he was hoping she'd die and be out of the way so he left her when he could have helped her, like Susan Smith did her babies. I really don't see any defense for this man, other than his popularity and name, which doesn't mean shit to me.

 

[Salome]

If Bush had done this, the thread would have had 188 responses by now. Nobody wants to think ill of their beloved Kennedys so most of you selectively ignore this.

well, that it happened before I was born also helps

I could still talk about the poor justicial system I guess
but I don't know enough about that

 

[U2Kitten]

It happened before I was born too (well, 3 or 4 months!) but it bothers me that this gets forgotten and written off as 'the past' when it was such a terrible thing that would have ruined anyone else, even some politicians. Even that Condit guy had to give up his political career when it was suspected he was involved in the death of his mistress, even though, unlike Ted, there is no evidence linking them at the time of her death! I still think some people let this go because they like the way he votes in congress and would be very hard on someone whose beliefs they did not agree with.

 

[U2Kitten]

To equate Teddy Kennedy with OJ is just plain wrong!

Ok...Ted wants to kill her. They both get drunk. SHE is this one driving ove the bridge. Did Ted use mind control to make her drive off the bridge?
In no way do I believe this was some pre-planned murder.

I don't believe he preplanned it either, but I do believe he let her die and hoped she would, to get her out of the way. I also believe it's possible Bobby or even JFK had something to do with Marilyn Monroe's death too. The reason he is like OJ is that he got away with something nobody esle could have because of his money, name and fame. They are both killers IMO.

 

[U2Kitten]

Well actually I never equated Bush with this act but rather equated him with the privelaged who get off scott free. No one is excused of anything. The Kennedys aren't beloved to me. But...you are one of the most partisan people in this forum yet you accuse everyone else of being so. So I pretty much threw the Bush thing out there to see if you would bite and you did.

Well how nice of you! I don't consider myself 'partisan' and don't even belong to any party. I see the 'accuse everyone else of being that way' thing to be much more frequently used by the anti-Bush people than the others (what, the 3 guys here who don't hate him vs. a couple dozen bashers?) and you just did it again! That's the main thing I hate about these debates, everyone does it yet everyone claims it's only the other side that does it!

 

[U2Kitten]

nicely said U2Kitten!

Thanks

It means a lot to see there are a couple people out there who don't criticize me more than Ted Kennedy!

 

[anitram]

If Bush had done this, the thread would have had 188 responses by now. Nobody wants to think ill of their beloved Kennedys so most of you selectively ignore this.

Oh please, so now we have to justify which threads we respond to?

I will tell you why I "ignored" this and your assumptions are 100% completely incorrect. First, it was a long time before my time (I was born in 1979). Second, I spent half my life living overseas and never even heard of this. And third, a couple of years ago when I did hear of it, it was only in passing and I know nothing about it. I am not an American, would not wish to be an American, do not live in America and don't give half a runny shit about the Kennedys. I know pretty much nothing about them apart from the fact one of them was a president, a little about his actions, especially re: Cuba, a little about his brother, obviously a little about his son, that one guy who mauled the girl with a golf club and that is it. I would have difficulty picking out Ted Kennedy out of a police lineup, for godssake, and it's a good example of Amerocentricism that you should assume we are all Kennedy lovers when most of us on this planet know little about them and care even less.

Sorry, but that's the truth and if people are going to make assumptions about why other people do or do not respond to certain threads, then they should read exactly why that is the case.

 

[U2Kitten]

I didn't mean everybody!

 

[Scarletwine]

To equate Ted Kennedy walking away from an accident that he didn't cause, whether he secretly wanted her dead or just didn't want the scandal derailing his career (and none of us will ever know his mind), to OJ is TOTALLY RIDICULOUS.

OJ premeditely and in cold blood stabbed with his own hands, two people multiple times to cause their deaths. Quite a different scene altogether.

Moreover I'm not a Kennedy fan though I like the way he votes in the Senate and think he should have been charged with leaving the scene. Back then he probably would have received only probation.

 

[Leeloo]

Surely anyone with enough rational judgement to be put in a position of making laws for this country should have known that an attempt at a cover-up is the worst kind of scandal, and if he reported it and stood up like a man he would have been much more honorable. Cover-ups and trying to run and hide never work and only make you look guilty. What about OJ's Bronco chase? What about that lady who hit the guy and freaked out and got scared and didn't know what to do so she just hid the car in the garage, guy and all? If she had reported it right away, she might have gotten sued, or a year or two, now they gave her 50 years! If only she'd been a Kennedy it would all be okay.

 

[melon]

Do any of your remember the William Kennedy Smith trial? Or what about Michael Skakel (part of the Kennedy clan)? Smith was found not guilty, but Skakel is sitting in prison, after being found guilty of murdering Martha Moxley back in the 1970s.

There's this thing called "evidence" whose burden is on the prosecution; hence "innocent until proven guilty." When someone is found "not guilty," it doesn't mean, from a legal POV, that they are innocent of the crime. It just means that there was enough reasonable doubt that they couldn't prove guilt. Hence, this is why some people are found not guilty in a criminal trial and guilty in a civil trial, where the burden of proving guilt is far less in a civil trial.

Trying to compare this to OJ is like comparing apples to oranges. I'm sure it was never pursued criminally, because the circumstances are incredibly odd. The fact that they were both drunk and she was driving would make it very difficult to prove that he was responsible for her death.

Melon

 

[U2Kitten]

It's not difficult to think or prove someone is responsible for a death when they leave them to die in a submerged car and make no effort to get help until 8 hours later when the person is surely long dead. Though OJ's crime was more cold blooded, there is really more evidence on Ted than there is on OJ because OJ was never officially placed at the scene of the crime.

 

[BVS]

That's the main thing I hate about these debates, everyone does it yet everyone claims it's only the other side that does it!

Irony at it's best.

 

[U2Kitten]

That's why we're all U2 fans

 

[BostonAnne]

I don't believe he preplanned it either, but I do believe he let her die and hoped she would, to get her out of the way. I also believe it's possible Bobby or even JFK had something to do with Marilyn Monroe's death too. The reason he is like OJ is that he got away with something nobody esle could have because of his money, name and fame. They are both killers IMO.

I didn't answer this thread initially because I can't defend him for not going directly to the police. It was foolish of him. The belief that he let her die and hoped she would die is your opinion. My opinion is that it was a tragic accident.

I think he has a great track record for successfully fighting for the issues that I believe in. I agree with Melon:

Sen. Kennedy will have to answer to God someday, and since he has not since posed a threat to society, I'm willing to let him deal with his conscience.

I also have great faith in Bono and his fight for justice in this world. Kennedy must have been helpful to him in someway for Bono to accept the invitation to be at the tribute. That's a good thing for Kennedy to be doing.

 

[Katey]

I didn't answer this thread initially because I can't defend him for not going directly to the police. It was foolish of him. The belief that he let her die and hoped she would die is your opinion. My opinion is that it was a tragic accident.

My thoughts too, and I am not a supporter of the Kennedy's in the political forum although subjectively I will say Ted Kennedy had done some very good things in his career. And I respect what people like Bobby and Eunice etc for Special Olympics etc..
As for Ted no doubt he should have gone to the police , I don't know what he did try and did not try to do to save her as I was not there to witness, I only know the facts as presented. It was along time ago and I am sure Ted Kennedy being a man has had to go through his own torment for this not to negate the death of the women because it is horrible, and in the end me not being a judge yes I too think he will have to answer to God for what he did or did not do..

I also believe it's possible Bobby or even JFK had something to do with Marilyn Monroe's death too

while we are at it lets go down the Kennedy legacy list of what people hold them responsible for.. the other theory of fame and money then the view it gets you off , is that people are always quick to judge and come up with conspiracy theories as they long have for the Kennedys.

We are all fine to express our opinions but there are alot of people out there who feel the Kennedy family and Ted Kennedy is deserving of this award for his service and career otherwise he would not be getting it.....

 

[RockNRollDawgie]

I don't believe he preplanned it either, but I do believe he let her die and hoped she would, to get her out of the way. I also believe it's possible Bobby or even JFK had something to do with Marilyn Monroe's death too. The reason he is like OJ is that he got away with something nobody esle could have because of his money, name and fame. They are both killers IMO.

What happened after the car went off
went off the bridge is a mystery. All we
have are Ted's version of events.
I agree Ted's last name and money got him out of this. Ok, I see the OJ factor now. I remember Ted's press
conference after this. He had arm in
a sling or something. I didn't buy his
story back then or now.

Marilyn was a troubled person, and did
suffer from depression. Seems it was a
phone call that may have triggered her
suicide. I'm pretty sure a "clean-up squad" entered her room and removed
embarrasing evidence, which may have
linked her to the Kennedy's. ( imo)
It's still very odd though.
By all accounts, Marilyn wasn't unhappy
or depressed at the time of her death though.
Then again. maybe Marilyn hid her depression from others.
Sad tragic tale.