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Old 09-05-2006, 10:59 AM   #46
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Censoring September 11th

Quote:
Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
Censorship only hurts those who are being censored
What a convienient belief. I guarantee that if, like 80s wants, the prayers of these people were being censored, you wouldn't have written such a ridiculous and disingenous statement.
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Old 09-05-2006, 11:04 AM   #47
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Censoring September 11th

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Originally posted by martha


80s, you're getting all worked up about what "probably" happened and what you "expect". NO ONE has actually censored the prayers of anyone on this show, and how can you censor silent prayers anyway?

BUT, if, for some reason, your beloved FCC decided to do such a thing, I would be as pissed about that as I am about them censoring the firefighters real and actual reaction.
Ah, but you miss my point. I'm not getting worked up. I do not consider it censorship that they didn't include all the prayers that were spoken out loud (and you have to know there were many); my point was that censoring swear words doesn't demean the memory and honor of the people involved, just as censoring the prayers doesn't demean them.
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Old 09-05-2006, 03:14 PM   #48
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This thread is getting ridiculous. Not airing silent prayers? Come on!!! Won't stop till we have more profanity? Do you people read what you write?

This is a piece of history as it happened. This isn't a reenactment, this isn't a made for hollywood movie, or someone's interpretation. THIS IS HOW IT HAPPENED!!! Why wouldn't someone want to see this how it happened? This is real life, did these people cover their eyes and ears as they walked by the wreckage that day?
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Old 09-05-2006, 03:24 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
This thread is getting ridiculous. Not airing silent prayers? Come on!!! Won't stop till we have more profanity? Do you people read what you write?
Evidently you didn't read what I wrote. I never made a case for depicting silent prayers. What I said was that if censoring the swear words somehow demeans the people who said them, then censoring "out loud, ie: spoken, prayers" demeans the people who prayed those prayers. I'll ask it again; isn't a spoken prayer every bit as authentic an emotinal response as cursing?
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Old 09-05-2006, 03:26 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


Evidently you didn't read what I wrote. I never made a case for depicting silent prayers. What I said was that if censoring the swear words somehow demeans the people who said them, then censoring "out loud, ie: spoken, prayers" demeans the people who prayed those prayers. I'll ask it again; isn't a spoken prayer every bit as authentic an emotinal response as cursing?
Yes, if their were spoken prayers that were censored, I'd agree with you but that's neither the case nor is it what you originally said.
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Old 09-05-2006, 04:28 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


Yes, if their were spoken prayers that were censored, I'd agree with you but that's neither the case nor is it what you originally said.
In my response to Martha I made it clear that I was referring to spoken prayers.

Do you doubt that prayers were spoken out loud by those being portrayed in the movie? Do you think they will depict those prayers verbatim?
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Old 09-05-2006, 04:29 PM   #52
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I still don't believe things have come to this.. I mean... that is not Jackass or a tv show with actors playing a role. that's a documental showing real people dying and suffering, strugling for their lives and their spoken words are a way to express their pain. I think it is really really stupid to censor those words, because it demostrates that some people cant see the pain through those words, they just hear a curse instead of feeling the pain of someone suffering... and the worst thing is that they want us to do the same, to be deaf.

"El peor ciego es el que no quiere ver" but in this case would be " the worst deaf is the one who doesn't want to hear"
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Old 09-05-2006, 04:44 PM   #53
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Instead of censoring reality, perhaps the FCC should worry about lies being pedalled to the American public through 9/11 revisionist movies:

http://thinkprogress.org/2006/09/05/clarke-blasts-abc/

Richard Clarke Blasts Key Scene In ABC’s 9/11 Docudrama

On September 10 and 11, ABC is planning to air a “docudrama” called Path to 9/11, billed by writer Cyrus Nowrasteh as “an objective telling of the events of 9/11.”

The first night of Path to 9/11 has a dramatic scene where former National Security Adviser Sandy Berger refuses to give the order to the CIA to take out bin Laden — even though CIA agents, along with the Northern Alliance, have his house surrounded.

...

ThinkProgress has obtained a response to this scene from Richard Clarke, former counterterrorism czar for Bush I, Clinton and Bush II, and now counterterrorism adviser to ABC:

1. Contrary to the movie, no US military or CIA personnel were on the ground in Afghanistan and saw bin Laden.

2. Contrary to the movie, the head of the Northern Alliance, Masood, was no where near the alleged bin Laden camp and did not see UBL.

3. Contrary to the movie, the CIA Director actually said that he could not recommend a strike on the camp because the information was single sourced and we would have no way to know if bin Laden was in the target area by the time a cruise missile hit it.

In short, this scene — which makes the incendiary claim that the Clinton administration passed on a surefire chance to kill or catch bin Laden — never happened. It was completely made up by Nowrasteh.

The actual history is quite different. According to the 9/11 Commission Report (pg. 199), then-CIA Director George Tenet had the authority from President Clinton to kill Bin Laden. Roger Cressy, former NSC director for counterterrorism, has written, “Mr. Clinton approved every request made of him by the CIA and the U.S. military involving using force against bin Laden and al-Qaeda.”
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Old 09-05-2006, 04:57 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


In my response to Martha I made it clear that I was referring to spoken prayers.

Do you doubt that prayers were spoken out loud by those being portrayed in the movie? Do you think they will depict those prayers verbatim?
Yes you did later change it to spoken prayers, I missed that post. And yes I'm sure there were many spoken prayers, I don't know how many were caught on film, for from what I've seen of the documentary it was more about when it was happening. And I'm not sure how many stopped to say a prayer out loud while it was happening. Regardless, no one is calling for the censoring of prayers in this documentary.
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Old 09-05-2006, 05:12 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


Yes you did later change it to spoken prayers, I missed that post. And yes I'm sure there were many spoken prayers, I don't know how many were caught on film, for from what I've seen of the documentary it was more about when it was happening. And I'm not sure how many stopped to say a prayer out loud while it was happening. Regardless, no one is calling for the censoring of prayers in this documentary.
I'm just making sure that your side of the argument is consistent on this; that you all would be outraged if any valid type of emotional response was censored from the film.
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Old 09-05-2006, 05:28 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest

I'm just making sure that your side of the argument is consistent on this; that you all would be outraged if any valid type of emotional response was censored from the film.
Of course. But understand this is a documentary, not a docudrama. What these people say is real, not scripted. The last time this was on, I could only get through the first 20 minutes of it.
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Old 09-05-2006, 06:02 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


I'm just making sure that your side of the argument is consistent on this; that you all would be outraged if any valid type of emotional response was censored from the film.
Well of course.
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Old 09-05-2006, 06:28 PM   #58
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Censoring September 11th

Quote:
Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
Terrorism is historically linked to fascism. The two are not mutually exclusive. Fascism is ineffective without the use of terrorism, and vice versa.
Then I guess the founding fathers of Israel and the United States were fascists, because they committed violent acts against the British that I'm sure the latter would have considered to be "terrorism."

Merely slapping an inflammatory label onto something you dislike doesn't necessarily mean the label is applied properly. On the contrary, what you risk doing is diluting the effectiveness of the term, "fascism," so that it eventually means absolutely nothing.

Bin Laden is, at best, an ultraconservative terrorist and a theocrat, and, yes, I'd say that terrorism, theocracy, and ultraconservatism certainly do go hand-in-hand.

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Old 09-05-2006, 06:33 PM   #59
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I got a chuckle out of this:

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/?q...1233134AAyzgV8

Quote:
Q. Why is fascism used to describe terrorists in the term Islamo-Fascism (by the retard)?

When fascism is just "a philosophy or system of government that is marked by stringent social and economic control, a strong, centralized government usually headed by a dictator, and often a policy of belligerent nationalism." (taken from The American Heritage Dictionary).

While Terrorism is just a tactic not a governmental philosophy."

A. Because Bush doesn't understand the term, but knows that people will react to it emotionally.

Besides, I prefer the Princeton dictionary definition: "a right-wing political theory advocating an authoritarian hierarchical government (as opposed to democracy or liberalism)".
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Old 09-05-2006, 06:43 PM   #60
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You may be a fascist without being a terrorist, but can you be a terrorist without being a fascist?
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