Celebrities & Politics: Round 2

[Macfistowannabe]

Ages ago, I had a Celebrities & Politics thread. Now that we seem to have a few more conservative posters who aren't in to celebrity worship, I think we can have a discussion.

ONE RULE THOUGH: We will not discuss Bono or anyone else heavily involved in Africa. They're walking the walk, while this thread is about those who talk the talk.

So the top question as of now: DO CELEBRITY OPINIONS MEAN ANYTHING TO YOU?

My answer is no, I can think for myself.

 

[Irvine511]

a celebrity opinion might make me take notice of an issue. i'll then think about it, and make up my own mind.

 

[Macfistowannabe]

Most of the time, it's absolutely rubbish to me. Here and there, they might say something worthwhile. Still, I don't give celebrities the equivalent of a master's degree, unless they devote their lives to a noble cause.

 

[Irvine511]

but isn't it also wrong to assume that simply because one is a celebirty their opinion matters *less* than the average person's?

 

[Macfistowannabe]

but isn't it also wrong to assume that simply because one is a celebirty their opinion matters *less* than the average person's?

I suppose so, although I wouldn't say that an average person's opinion matters more than a celebrity's. Unless the "average person" has a double master's degree and a crystal ball.

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

a celebrity opinion might make me take notice of an issue. i'll then think about it, and make up my own mind.

Ditto. And that same rule applies to non-celebrity opinions I hear, too. If I find a person and I agree on an issue, great. If we don't, that's fine, too.

Bottom line is that they still have as much right as anyone else does to express their views-I don't understand this idea some people in this world have about how celebrities should keep their mouths shut on an issue (boy, good thing our parents' generation didn't have that attitude back in the 60s and 70s when musicians were singing about the Vietnam War), 'cause, hey, nobody said you have to agree with them.

Angela

 

[Macfistowannabe]

No, you don't have to agree with them. I like that rule. Yet personally I lose interest in music and so forth when every album on the shelves is "F*ck George Bush."

I admit that I find their opinions useless for the most part, but from time to time I give them credit. More than half the time I think to myself, "what do they know?" Other times, they might have something worthwhile.

I guess my beef is with those who believe that celebrities are and forever shall be our political saviors.

 

[BVS]

A degree doesn't mean shit to me when it comes to a cause. Why is that a celebrity is automatically reduced to a less intelligent human. I've seen celebrities who are much more educated on certain issues than politicians. I think dismissing a celebrity is just as bad as dismissing someone because they are female or blonde.

Plus let's face it would you rather here an athlete talk about some cause or someone you've never heard who looks like the guy in high school who never washed his hair? If they are both passionate and educated about the subject it's really a no brainer.

 

[Ft. Worth Frog]

I think when celebrities open their mouths it is sometimes obvious if they are just jumping on some bandwagon. Those who are educated about their issue are sometimes less vocal and in your face and seek to educate people in other ways. For example, Sting's work regarding the rainforests appears to have more depth because he does more than just mouth off about "No blood for oil" while driving off with his posse in an suv.

 

[financeguy]

Celebrities wouldn't influence me how to vote one way or the other.

 

[trevster2k]

Celebrities bring attention to an issue, like it or not. Some are knowledgeable while others are just waving and looking pretty. Look at the awareness level increase in spinal cord disabilities and parkinson's disease as a result of celebrities being afflicted.

But like mentioned above, free country ain't it, they can say whatever they want, no one has to listen. And if people blindly follow them, oh well.

 

[saltwaterkiss26]

Celebrities should be careful what they say because they have a heavy influence on a certain group of people. That said, they shouldn't be taken too seriously. That also being said, their opinions shouldn't necessarily be discredited. We're all bad-tempered humans underneath it all, right?

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

If a celebrity is educated and truly passionate about what they're talking about, I'm interested. If they're humble about it, that really gets my attention. I saw Angelina Jolie on CSpan talking about her work, and I found it so refreshing that she freely admitted when she didn't know the answer to a particular question, and she said many things she approaches w/ her heart and not her head. I liked that.

I just can't stand a celebrity who acts like he/she knows it all and he/she doesn't, or just jumps on a particular bandwagon for personal benefit.

I don't dismiss a celebrity's opinion just because they're famous, but sometimes some of them get so pompous and overbearing that I dismiss them. But I do that for non-celebrities too.

 

[verte76]

I can't exactly say that Bono is the only celebrity who's influenced my opinion. Chris Martin isn't nearly as talented in the diplomacy department as Bono is, but he's pretty damn smart about the whole fair trade issue. He got me started with Oxfam the way Bono got me started with AIDS in Africa and wells. Those are the only two celebs who have ever influenced me politically. It's just a coincidence most of the time that these guys tend to be liberals, and so am I. By the same token I think it's stupid to dislike a celebrity just because I don't like their politics. They might be a great singer or actor. That's their life; their politics is their own damn business and none of mine.

 

[melon]

I've never been a fan of the Hollywood "star system." I think they ruin most movies, rather than make them better. They exist to epitomize the crux of modern American society: "image over substance."

Since I think so negatively of celebrities and their "acting ability," it stands to reason that I also don't care what they say politically. Republicans, however, are as guilty as Democrats can be. They'll whine about celebrities and their mostly "liberal leanings," but then become equally star-struck the minute a Republican-leaning celebrity opens his/her mouth. And that's why Arnold is governor of California.

Melon

 

[nathan1977]

The reality is that the majority of stars/celebrities aren't as well informed about their causes as they could/should be. Most have spent years scratching at the doors of Hollywood, focusing on doing whatever it takes to succeed -- and one could argue that it takes more work to succeed in Hollywood than it does anywhere else. When you factor in the amount of work it takes to remain successful in Hollywood, the chances for most celebrities to become well-informed about any issue start to fade into the background. (Sean Penn and the "Iraqi children playing by chocolate rivers" comment from Team America springs to mind...)

Plus there is a "herd" mentality that runs fairly deep in the celebrity community. I think that affects causes and passions much more than an inherent belief in one particular cause. Africa this week, anti-fur next week -- for the most part, people are content to make noise as opposed to change. Causes seem more like a chance for self-promotion (**cough cough** Sharon Stone **cough cough**) than promotion of both a problem and a solution.

Of course this is a generality. I do admire the fact that Angelina Jolie has become a UN Ambassador (though I think the title is somewhat silly) and that Brad Pitt has gone to Africa. I gather that part of what Bono was doing in L.A. last week was trying to get fellow celebs to realize that Africa is more than just a cause of the week.

 

[Macfistowannabe]

Republicans, however, are as guilty as Democrats can be. They'll whine about celebrities and their mostly "liberal leanings," but then become equally star-struck the minute a Republican-leaning celebrity opens his/her mouth. And that's why Arnold is governor of California.

Arnold is more of a libertarian/social liberal than a cold-blooded conservative if you look at his stances. I disagree with a number of his views on social issues, and if I lived in California, I don't think I would have voted for him.

 

[financeguy]

Arnold is more of a libertarian/social liberal than a cold-blooded conservative if you look at his stances.

True enough, although there is some tradition of libertarianism in the GOP (now in decline, unfortunately in my view)

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

They'll whine about celebrities and their mostly "liberal leanings," but then become equally star-struck the minute a Republican-leaning celebrity opens his/her mouth. And that's why Arnold is governor of California.

Exactly, I don't get that, either. I hear Americans saying all the time that they want celebrities to shut up and keep out of politics, and then those same Americans turn around and vote celebrities into political offices-Arnold for governor, Jesse Ventura for governor, Ronald Reagan for president. Go figure.

Angela

 

[Macfistowannabe]

Exactly, I don't get that, either. I hear Americans saying all the time that they want celebrities to shut up and keep out of politics, and then those same Americans turn around and vote celebrities into political offices-Arnold for governor, Jesse Ventura for governor, Ronald Reagan for president. Go figure.

Ventura, another libertarian, as is Arnold. Not necessarily conservatives. Reagan? He's the only true conservative you listed, but he was a democrat during his Hollywood days.

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

Ventura, another libertarian, as is Arnold. Not necessarily conservatives. Reagan? He's the only true conservative you listed, but he was a democrat during his Hollywood days.

That post of mine should've been clarified better, sorry-I personally wasn't remarking on the political leanings, I was just pointing out how odd it is that we elect celebrities, regardless of political affiliation, to office yet at the same time tell them they need to shut up and stay out of politics. That quote from melon just reminded me of the oddity of that (although they are right about that-but of course, it can work the other way, too).

Angela

 

[BVS]

The reality is that the majority of stars/celebrities aren't as well informed about their causes as they could/should be. Most have spent years scratching at the doors of Hollywood, focusing on doing whatever it takes to succeed -- and one could argue that it takes more work to succeed in Hollywood than it does anywhere else. When you factor in the amount of work it takes to remain successful in Hollywood, the chances for most celebrities to become well-informed about any issue start to fade into the background. (Sean Penn and the "Iraqi children playing by chocolate rivers" comment from Team America springs to mind...)

Plus there is a "herd" mentality that runs fairly deep in the celebrity community. I think that affects causes and passions much more than an inherent belief in one particular cause. Africa this week, anti-fur next week -- for the most part, people are content to make noise as opposed to change. Causes seem more like a chance for self-promotion (**cough cough** Sharon Stone **cough cough**) than promotion of both a problem and a solution.

The funny thing is, the same thing can be said about religion these days.

 

[BonosSaint]

Can anyone here really say they were influenced by anything a celebrity has said? We're a pretty good cross section. I've certainly been informed about things I didn't know about by some celebrities, but I doubt it changed my opinion one iota. I might see the inherent wisdom in a celebrity who agrees with my position. But then I see the inherent wisdom of anyone who agrees with my postion.

They do no harm; sometimes they do some good. Most of the celebrities just talk or go on a junket when a thousand cameras record their every move. If I could somehow know what they do when the camera isn't on them, I might respect them more. On a whole, they do the easy stuff, the fun stuff, then disappear when it is time to get dirty.

 

[Macfistowannabe]

Sometimes, quotes such as this can be a turnoff:

"America is dumb, is something like a dumb puppy that has big teeth - that can bite and hurt you, aggressive.."

- Johnny Depp


"With three Supreme Court positions opening in the next administration, I'm frightened to think of a Republican in office, especially one raised by a father who was in the CIA. I'm moving to a different country if little Damien II gets elected."

- Eddie Vedder


"Alec is the biggest moralist I know. I can well imagine that Alec makes good on his threat. And then I'd probably have to go too."

- Kim Basinger


"That's like the people who say 'Now we're going to live our life as it says in Genesis . . . this is really scary"

- Lynn Redgrave


"Bush wasn't elected, he was selected - selected by five judges up in Washington who voted along party lines,"

- Alec Baldwin


"When I see an American flag flying, it's a joke."
- Robert Altman


"I'm saying that the moral climate within the ruling class in this country is not that different from the moral climate within the ruling class of Hitler's Germany."

- David Clennon


...I'm not comparing Bush to Adolf Hitler - because George Bush, for one thing, is not as smart as Adolf Hitler. And secondly George Bush has much more power than Adolf Hitler ever had."

- David Clennon


"I think war is based in greed and there are huge karmic retributions that will follow. I think war is never the answer to solving any problems. The best way to solve problems is to not have enemies."

- Sheryl Crow


"I just wish men would quit thinking they could just duke it out with each other. I don’t have all the facts, and who knows what’s really the truth, but I don’t really respect (Bush’s) way of dealing with this situation. It would have been great to have someone really, really smart in that office, and someone who is globally aware."

- Sandy Duncan


"In a situation like this, of course you identify with everyone who's suffering. (But we must also think about) the terrorists who are creating such horrible future lives for themselves because of the negativity of this karma. It's all of our jobs to keep our minds as expansive as possible. If you can see (the terrorists) as a relative who's dangerously sick and we have to give them medicine, and the medicine is love and compassion. There's nothing better."

- Richard Gere


"America has never paid any attention to other people, so it's absurd for Bush to say that it's all in the best interests of the Iraqi people."

- Richard Gere


"Yes, (Bush is a) racist. We all knew that but the world is only finding it out now. As Texas's governor, Bush led a penitentiary system that executed more people than all the other U.S. states together. And most of the people who died from (the) death penalty were Afro-Americans or Hispanics. (Bush) promoted a Conservative program, designed to eliminate everything Americans had accomplished so far in matters of race and equality."

- Danny Glover


"Have we gone to war yet? We f****** deserve to get bombed. Bring it on."

- Chrissie Hynde


"Let's get rid of all the economic (expletive) this country represents! Bring it on, I hope the Muslims win!"

- Chrissie Hynde


"Many families have been devastated tonight. This just is not right. They did not deserve to die. If someone did this to get back at Bush, then they did so by killing thousands of people who DID NOT VOTE for him! Boston, New York, DC, and the planes' destination of California--these were places that voted AGAINST Bush!"

-Michael Moore


"(T)he passengers were scaredy-cats because they were mostly white. If the passengers had included black men those killers, with their puny bodies and unimpressive small knives, would have been crushed by the dudes."

- Michael Moore on Flight 93


"I just think we are a little bit of an arrogant nation and maybe this is a little bit of a humbling experience ... what has our government done to provoke (9/11) that we don't know about?"

- Kevin Richardson


...yep.

 

[BVS]

Context can be a bitch.

Let's not forget such gems as Ms. Spears saying we should just listen to the president no matter what, or good ole Ted Nuggent calling liberals mindless pinko-commies who should be removed from existence.

 

[Macfistowannabe]

I think I had a laugh at both of those as well. It's usually a surprise when you find a celebrity who says something worth-while and well-thought. Britney is an unlikely candidate, and Nuge is just funny.

 

[BVS]

It's usually a surprise when you find a celebrity who says something worth-while and well-thought.

So why is that? And compared to who? Average citizens or politicians?

 

[Macfistowannabe]

So why is that? And compared to who? Average citizens or politicians?

The "average citizens" left and right that I had discussions with over the election had thoughtful arguments for their stances. Obviously there are at least two groups of "average citizens" - the well-informed, and the ill-informed. I commonly lose interest in what an ill-informed might think politically, as they have little interest of what goes on in the world.

Why is that? Hrmm... there aren't really a lot of celebrities who seem to understand both sides of the spectrum for what they are. Same goes for ill-informed nobodys. For those who do, I have to give them credit.

Politicians obviously make obsurd/stereotypical comments from time to time, no doubt about it. But being the professional politicians they are, one might think that (a) they know how to win votes and (b) they have a good deal of expertise in the field.

 

[Irvine511]

The "average citizens" left and right that I had discussions with over the election had thoughtful arguments for their stances. Obviously there are at least two groups of "average citizens" - the well-informed, and the ill-informed. I commonly lose interest in what an ill-informed might think politically, as they have little interest of what goes on in the world.

Why is that? Hrmm... there aren't really a lot of celebrities who seem to understand both sides of the spectrum for what they are. Same goes for ill-informed nobodys. For those who do, I have to give them credit.

Politicians obviously make obsurd/stereotypical comments from time to time, no doubt about it. But being the professional politicians they are, one might think that (a) they know how to win votes and (b) they have a good deal of expertise in the field.

so you're comparing a discussion with a soundbyte?

 

[Macfistowannabe]

so you're comparing a discussion with a soundbyte?

I think that enough is said when someone wants Iraq to win the war. Enough is said when one stoops low enough to compare the president to Hitler. I think enough is said when someone says they want to leave the country over an election. Enough is said when someone believes in sympathizing with terrorists, and that we can treat terrorists as our relatives, sit them down, and get them the help they need rather than bring them to justice.