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Old 04-15-2005, 10:10 AM   #31
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Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
I think that enough is said when someone wants Iraq to win the war. Enough is said when one stoops low enough to compare the president to Hitler. I think enough is said when someone says they want to leave the country over an election. Enough is said when someone believes in sympathizing with terrorists, and that we can treat terrorists as our relatives, sit them down, and get them the help they need rather than bring them to justice.

and who said that? you sound like an FCC sensor.

i'd argue that we're living in an age of "patriotic correctness" -- where if you don't qualify every statement with, "I love this country, but ..." then you're some sort of terrorist who belongs in one of those Gonzales gulags where you get tortured to death.

it's a very black-and-white world you're painting, and one thing that will help us to beat the enemy is to understand where they are coming from and why they think what they do. this is not sympathy, this is simply smart. do you not try to understand the disease you are trying to cure?
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Old 04-15-2005, 10:23 AM   #32
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Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
I think that enough is said when someone wants Iraq to win the war. Enough is said when one stoops low enough to compare the president to Hitler. I think enough is said when someone says they want to leave the country over an election. Enough is said when someone believes in sympathizing with terrorists, and that we can treat terrorists as our relatives, sit them down, and get them the help they need rather than bring them to justice.
That's ridiculous.

You've compared certain politicians to Hitler .

You lack context, assume far too much, and don't understand the rest.

Why is it "enough said" when one actually believes in trying to start a line of communication with someone before just killing them. I don't know about you but that sounds like a very compassionate thing, something that Jesus may have actually tried. But we all know he's a brainless hippie right.
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Old 04-15-2005, 10:25 AM   #33
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Originally posted by Irvine511
and who said that? you sound like an FCC sensor.
Look at the celebrity quotes I listed. My last post was directly based on them. FCC censor? Nah. I'm not saying they can't say anything of a kind, as some on this forum have made it out to be without even thinking about it. I'm saying that much of it is rubbish, and again, look at the celebrity quotes if I haven't made my point already.

Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
i'd argue that we're living in an age of "patriotic correctness" -- where if you don't qualify every statement with, "I love this country, but ..." then you're some sort of terrorist who belongs in one of those Gonzales gulags where you get tortured to death.
I understand your first sentence, and I actually agree. However the Gonzales/terrorist reference was a little extreme. You'll get called out on it, but not tortured for it.

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Originally posted by Irvine511
it's a very black-and-white world you're painting, and one thing that will help us to beat the enemy is to understand where they are coming from and why they think what they do. this is not sympathy, this is simply smart. do you not try to understand the disease you are trying to cure?
Obviously we should look at where the enemy is coming from. But to think that we could ever reason the hatred out of them as if they were a relative is absurd, at least in my thoughts.
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Old 04-15-2005, 10:31 AM   #34
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


That's ridiculous.

You've compared certain politicians to Hitler .
Really? Like who? Stalin?

Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
You lack context, assume far too much, and don't understand the rest.

Why is it "enough said" when one actually believes in trying to start a line of communication with someone before just killing them. I don't know about you but that sounds like a very compassionate thing, something that Jesus may have actually tried. But we all know he's a brainless hippie right.
Right, compasion is always the best weapon, and we can reason with every one of the world's terrorists.
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Old 04-15-2005, 10:46 AM   #35
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Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
Really? Like who? Stalin?
Go take a look at one of your first posts about Dean.


Quote:
Originally posted by Macfistowannabe

Right, compasion is always the best weapon, and we can reason with every one of the world's terrorists.
I'm not saying we can but the idea to try first is not one I'd dismiss, in fact I would say it's one that we are called upon. But your dismissive attitude to those you don't agree with politically is fairly small minded. Honestly I haven't seen any ground to your idea that celebrities are any less thoughtful or intelligent with their causes or beliefs, I've just seen you dismissing them because you don't agree.
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Old 04-15-2005, 10:52 AM   #36
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
Go take a look at one of your first posts about Dean.
I have no idea what you are talking about. Would you mind quoting it for me?

Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
I'm not saying we can but the idea to try first is not one I'd dismiss, in fact I would say it's one that we are called upon. But your dismissive attitude to those you don't agree with politically is fairly small minded. Honestly I haven't seen any ground to your idea that celebrities are any less thoughtful or intelligent with their causes or beliefs, I've just seen you dismissing them because you don't agree.
I dismiss outrageous Bush-bashing and outrageous Clinton-bashing, whether or not they come from celebrities. Avoiding extremes, as well as exposing them is something you are likely to see from me. If blocking out extremes makes me "small-minded", good for me. I don't care what you think of it if that's the case.
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Old 04-15-2005, 11:00 AM   #37
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sorry, you seem to want to condemn more than listen, a sort of celebirty witch hunt, where if it was said by a celebrity then it is more suspect than the average person, and more stupid than the average person ... and you're also mistaken in thinking that such opinions you've taken out of context are held by these individuals alone. many, many americans would agree with most of those comments, i probably agree with 70% of them, and celebrities are welcome to have opinions just like the rest of us. and you're still equating a conversation with someone you disagree with to a few quotes you're pulling out and using as evidence of some sort of conspiracy. what i think you should do is engage Richard Gere in a conversation, and then you can feel free to condemn or condone whatever he says. until then, i'm really not sure what your point is other than to play into fantasies of Hollywood as some sort of anti-American bastion where people cheered 9-11 or Madrid or Bail. as much as many would like that to be the case, it simply isn't.
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Old 04-15-2005, 11:03 AM   #38
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Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
I have no idea what you are talking about. Would you mind quoting it for me?
I'd rather not it's pretty offensive, just look back to your posts on 12-13-2003.


Quote:
Originally posted by Macfistowannabe

I dismiss outrageous Bush-bashing and outrageous Clinton-bashing, whether or not they come from celebrities. Avoiding extremes, as well as exposing them is something you are likely to see from me. If blocking out extremes makes me "small-minded", good for me. I don't care what you think of it if that's the case.
That's fine, but all those quotes weren't extreme bashing.
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Old 04-15-2005, 11:09 AM   #39
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Not all of them were, but some could easily be considered over the top. And 2003? Way back when nearly two years ago. No wonder I seemed to forget.

And in response to Irvine - true, I may not think highly of celebrity opinions very often, nor do I agree with many of them. If it was out of context, I'd like to know how, and what the original context was.
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Old 04-15-2005, 11:15 AM   #40
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And 2003? Way back when nearly two years ago. No wonder I seemed to forget.
But you're not dismissing it because it was in 2003 are you?
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Old 04-15-2005, 11:26 AM   #41
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
But you're not dismissing it because it was in 2003 are you?
I'm not denying it, but I'm more interested in having a discussion concerning celebrity politics than holding grudges. If my old, newbie comment offended you, I apologize. If you don't mind mind, I would like to stick with the topic.
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Old 04-15-2005, 11:31 AM   #42
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I'm not denying it, but I'm more interested in having a discussion concerning celebrity politics than holding grudges. If my old, newbie comment offended you, I apologize. If you don't mind mind, I would like to stick with the topic.
Not a grudge I just have a wierd memory.

But this has everything to do with the topic. You are bashing and dismissing celebrities for the same exact speech you commit. Sounds a little hypocritical.
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Old 04-15-2005, 11:37 AM   #43
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
Not a grudge I just have a wierd memory.

But this has everything to do with the topic. You are bashing and dismissing celebrities for the same exact speech you commit. Sounds a little hypocritical.


You seem to think that I dismiss ALL celebrities before they talk, which is simply untrue. There is no sense in being hung up over a comment I made when I was new here, which was ages ago. There are plenty of threads about politicians and non-celebs popping off with a mouth, go look for it yourself.

Can we please get back on topic.

If celebrities influence your opinions or thoughts, how often does this occur?

What do you find positive about political celebrities, other than your political agreements with them?
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Old 04-15-2005, 11:52 AM   #44
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If celebrities influence your opinions or thoughts, how often does this occur?Since I am often in disagreement with them, I would say they influence my thoughts and opinions on Hollywood politics. However, there may be some diamonds in the rough, but in my view, they are hard to find. From time to time, they may raise awareness on issues, which I suppose is usually a good thing.

What do you find positive about political celebrities, other than your political agreements with them?I suppose a positive is that they are free to express themselves so that we can know them in ways that aren't exposed in their movies. Also, they are expressing their freedom of speech, which is exactly what appraisers and critics may do in response. Another positive is when they are involved in a respectable cause, such as the One Campaign, etc. I do respect those who want to give something back to the world.
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Old 04-15-2005, 12:01 PM   #45
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Originally posted by Macfistowannabe

You seem to think that I dismiss ALL celebrities before they talk, which is simply untrue.
Ok not all the time just "most of the time it's absolute rubbish".

Quote:
Originally posted by Macfistowannabe

There is no sense in being hung up over a comment I made when I was new here, which was ages ago. There are plenty of threads about politicians and non-celebs popping off with a mouth, go look for it yourself.
But this is the point I'm trying to make. You're trying to make a point by exhibiting quotes out of context, I mean you had a long list of quotes so obviously you spent a lot of time and energy with this. You're dismissing celebrities due to these out of context quotes, yet you won't acknowledge your own faults in political speech. None of us are without fault when it comes to this, but for some reason you want to hang up celebrities.

Your using being new or that it was a long time ago as reasons to not take your quote too seriously, but you don't know the circumstances that these quotes were made. Maybe they were having a bad day and would have otherwise worded it very differently. You don't know. But why reduce them to rubbish and not yourself.



Quote:
Originally posted by Macfistowannabe

What do you find positive about political celebrities, other than your political agreements with them?
Any celebrity who truly gets involved to change this world is a good thing. I don't care if I don't agree with their politics. If Ted Nugent wants to raise awareness about the NRA, that's fine. I don't agree with it, but the fact that a celebrity wants to spend his time bringing awareness to something that he really believes in is a lot better than sitting at home swimming in his own ego. I respect that.
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