shart1780
Rock n' Roll Doggie
BonoVoxSupastar said:
You mean we agree on something?
Yup we do LOL.
Catholics and Condoms
- Thread starter BVS
- Start date
The friendliest place on the web for anyone that follows U2.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
Yup we do LOL.
Macfistowannabe
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
No matter what?
Let's play "what if" for a second here...
What if... a pastor handed them out at a church service.
What if... a kindergarten teacher passed them out.
Although I would encourage the sexually active to use pre-intercoursal protection by all means if they aren't interested in child bearing.
Let's play "what if" for a second here...
What if... a pastor handed them out at a church service.
What if... a kindergarten teacher passed them out.
Although I would encourage the sexually active to use pre-intercoursal protection by all means if they aren't interested in child bearing.
shart1780
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Well, yeah, I think you know what I meant heh heh.
Macfistowannabe
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
Unless you want to join the Condom Police.
OP
OP
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
Macfistowannabe said:
Can you at least come up with plausible scenarios? Kindergarten? Come on!!!
AcrobatMan
Rock n' Roll Doggie
I dont understand why guys here like and applaud statement like
"killing is bad "
or "using condoms is ok"
as if killing was ok in the 1st place or...using condoms would ensure a place in hells
as if some old book was more important than scientifically proven facts.
sorry i dont understand this FUSS and glorification of things that doesnt deserve any ATTENTION
"killing is bad "
or "using condoms is ok"
as if killing was ok in the 1st place or...using condoms would ensure a place in hells
as if some old book was more important than scientifically proven facts.
sorry i dont understand this FUSS and glorification of things that doesnt deserve any ATTENTION
Do Miss America
War Child
shart1780 said:
Well besides being wrong what's your point? Are you going to tell me HIV is God's punishment for being gay?
Anthony
Refugee
By your logic, then, any support for any sexual activity must cease, if anyone is interested in the fight against AIDS.
Ant.
FizzingWhizzbees
ONE love, blood, life
shart1780 said:
Let's see...how about by encouraging people, regardless of sexuality, to practice safe sex. Doesn't sound too contradictory to me, but I suppose that's not the answer you were looking for.
Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
good gosh.
let's get one thing straight (oh, the irony of that word): HIV is not a disease of sexual orientation. worldwide, it afflicts far more heterosexuals than homosexuals.
being gay doesn't make you more or less likely to be infected; having unprotected receptive intercourse with an infected partner does. in fact, it is actually easier to transmit the virus through vaginal intercourse than anal intercourse. basically, unsafe, reckless sexual activity is what causes the transimission of HIV, not the genders of the two sexual partners.
now -- why gay men? why do they make up a disproportionate percentage of HIV transmissions? several reasons.
1. it is a close knit community, clannish, with far fewer degrees of separation between sexual partners than heterosexuals -- this is mostly a numbers thing, and also due to the huge clusters of gay men in cities, many of whom have fled their small towns across america because they were sick of having the crap kicked out of them, being told they were going to hell, or having their "lifestyle" condemned.
2. homosexual men can both penetrate, and be penetrated, therefore receive the disease and pass it on far more easily than a woman to pass it on to another man, because she can only be penetrated in intercourse. (that may be worded clumsily, but think about it)
3. homophobia. it kills. how? the first lesson that every homosexual is taught: survival depends upon self-concealment. it is simply impossible for many gay men to "come out" -- due to class, culture, or whatever social obstacles are in their way. thus, many of these closted, tormented men are on the "down low," cruising in public parks, furtively sneaking into seedy bars, and having sex in bad places with anonymous people, often under the influence of alcohol and drugs (since these help you lose some of those heavily indoctrinated inhibitions), and safety is often the last thing one thinks of. it's tragic, but true.
the more homophobic the environment, the more likely it is that unsafe sexual practices are going to take place.
if we really want to combat the spread of HIV in the West, in addition to education, we'd do well to recognize and legitimize homosexual relationships. it must be percevied as an acceptable way of life and stripped of all the trappings of 2nd class citizenship. gay marriage must happen, because models of how to successfully conduct a monogamous relationship -- such givens for heterosexuals, as most of popular culture revolves around navigating the complexities of heterosexual love -- should be endorsed by society. the legitimizing of homosexual relationships, as different but equally powerful and worthwhile as heterosexual relationships, will make us all healthier.
let's get one thing straight (oh, the irony of that word): HIV is not a disease of sexual orientation. worldwide, it afflicts far more heterosexuals than homosexuals.
being gay doesn't make you more or less likely to be infected; having unprotected receptive intercourse with an infected partner does. in fact, it is actually easier to transmit the virus through vaginal intercourse than anal intercourse. basically, unsafe, reckless sexual activity is what causes the transimission of HIV, not the genders of the two sexual partners.
now -- why gay men? why do they make up a disproportionate percentage of HIV transmissions? several reasons.
1. it is a close knit community, clannish, with far fewer degrees of separation between sexual partners than heterosexuals -- this is mostly a numbers thing, and also due to the huge clusters of gay men in cities, many of whom have fled their small towns across america because they were sick of having the crap kicked out of them, being told they were going to hell, or having their "lifestyle" condemned.
2. homosexual men can both penetrate, and be penetrated, therefore receive the disease and pass it on far more easily than a woman to pass it on to another man, because she can only be penetrated in intercourse. (that may be worded clumsily, but think about it)
3. homophobia. it kills. how? the first lesson that every homosexual is taught: survival depends upon self-concealment. it is simply impossible for many gay men to "come out" -- due to class, culture, or whatever social obstacles are in their way. thus, many of these closted, tormented men are on the "down low," cruising in public parks, furtively sneaking into seedy bars, and having sex in bad places with anonymous people, often under the influence of alcohol and drugs (since these help you lose some of those heavily indoctrinated inhibitions), and safety is often the last thing one thinks of. it's tragic, but true.
the more homophobic the environment, the more likely it is that unsafe sexual practices are going to take place.
if we really want to combat the spread of HIV in the West, in addition to education, we'd do well to recognize and legitimize homosexual relationships. it must be percevied as an acceptable way of life and stripped of all the trappings of 2nd class citizenship. gay marriage must happen, because models of how to successfully conduct a monogamous relationship -- such givens for heterosexuals, as most of popular culture revolves around navigating the complexities of heterosexual love -- should be endorsed by society. the legitimizing of homosexual relationships, as different but equally powerful and worthwhile as heterosexual relationships, will make us all healthier.
Macfistowannabe
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
You failed to see that I was testing the limits of shart1780's "no matter what" approach.BonoVoxSupastar said:
Macfistowannabe
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
On talk radio, it was said that in some African cultures, they believe that sex with babies will cure AIDS. They need to be informed much better about the disease.
Do Miss America
War Child
Macfistowannabe said:
That's one of the biggest reasons it's spreading so fast in Africa is that sexual education is missing, and their religious beliefs won't allow sex ed programs in. But I haven't heard the baby thing.
Macfistowannabe
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
Their religious beliefs... If you give me names of certain ones, I'll be happy to research them. But YOU'RE RIGHT, THEY NEED THE INFO. IT'S KILLING THEM.
Do Miss America
War Child
I remember watching a report on TV awhile back and they were saying that the area they were reporting on was a highly Muslim area and they wouldn't allow sex to be talked about in schools, churches, etc.
Example of why abstinence only programs wouldn't work here in America.
Example of why abstinence only programs wouldn't work here in America.
Macfistowannabe
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
I've learned A LOT about using protection, so I can't say I've only seen the abstinence only programs. I will see if I can get back to you about the Muslim areas that are preventing sex ed.
shart1780
Rock n' Roll Doggie
My belief is that we should teach abstinance AND about sex.
That's how I learned it. You can be taught about sex without the school handing out free condoms. That's basically promoting sex.
That's how I learned it. You can be taught about sex without the school handing out free condoms. That's basically promoting sex.
Anthony
Refugee
I don't think handing out condoms is the same as promoting sex, per se, but I do believe that abstinence should be recommended, to a certain extent.
At the risk of sounding like Mother Hen, I don't really like the attitude that too many young people have of 'sleeping on the first (or second, or third) date. I just dont like it, and its not really all that helpful in this day and age.
Ant.
At the risk of sounding like Mother Hen, I don't really like the attitude that too many young people have of 'sleeping on the first (or second, or third) date. I just dont like it, and its not really all that helpful in this day and age.
Ant.
Macfistowannabe
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
You are right about the Muslims who don't allow sex-ed, the facts support it. However, I fail to see much of a link between THEM and US. You mean to tell me that we aren't informing students about any means of protection? I would like some professional sources.
http://www.salaam.co.uk/themeofthemonth/october02_index.php?l=4
In other news...
"Statistics show that condoms really have not been very effective. It's been the principal prevention device for the last 20 years, and I think one needs only to look at what's happening with the infection rates in the world to recognize that has not been working."
-- U.S. Global AIDS Coordinator Randall Tobias, 4/22/04
http://www.salaam.co.uk/themeofthemonth/october02_index.php?l=4
In other news...
"Statistics show that condoms really have not been very effective. It's been the principal prevention device for the last 20 years, and I think one needs only to look at what's happening with the infection rates in the world to recognize that has not been working."
-- U.S. Global AIDS Coordinator Randall Tobias, 4/22/04
Do Miss America
War Child
shart1780 said:
Just like putting a fire extinguisher at the end of the hall promotes arson? That is ridiculous.
Macfistowannabe
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
Absolutely. You don't need to pass out condoms like some kind of freak show to educate people on them. I would also like to agree with Anthony about the attitudes of those teenage bed pets who sleep on the first date.shart1780 said:
For those who may question Randall Tobias' credibility, I give you this, free of charge.
http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/biog/26580.htm
Among his honors, Tobias was named Pharmaceutical Industry CEO of the Year by the Wall Street Transcript in 1995, and CEO of the Year in 1996 by Working Mother magazine. In 1997, he was named one of the “Top Twenty-Five Managers of the Year” by Business Week, Magazine. He was also named the “Norman Vincent Peale Humanitarian of the Year” in 1997.
Macfistowannabe
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
What justifies this comparison?Do Miss America said:
Do Miss America
War Child
Sorry did I say there was a link? I said abstinence only programs are dangerous in America because religion gets in the way of teaching ALL the facts.Macfistowannabe said:
Macfistowannabe said:
I'm a little perplexed by this quote. We would have to know how many people are using condoms or have access to condoms before we say they aren't working.
Do Miss America
War Child
Macfistowannabe said:What justifies this comparison?
They are both for our protection.
nbcrusader
Blue Crack Addict
Do Miss America said:
One doesn't typically bring a fire extiguisher along to an arson.
Do Miss America
War Child
nbcrusader said:
And those that don't care about protection won't bring a condom.
shart1780
Rock n' Roll Doggie
It is a fact that homosexuals are statistically more likely to have HIV. Yes, more heterosexuals have HIV just because there's an overwhelmingly large amount of heterosexuals compared to homosexuals in this world. Percentage-wise though, it's not even close.
nbcrusader
Blue Crack Addict
Do Miss America said:
Or they simply don't have sex.
but we can't possibly suggest that now, sorry....
Do Miss America
War Child
shart1780 said:
So once again what is your point in pointing this out?
Do Miss America
War Child
nbcrusader said:
Have you ever seen me state where I don't think abstinence is a good idea? No so please don't put words in my mouth, I just don't believe in abstinence ONLY programs.
