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Old 01-19-2005, 12:07 PM   #16
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This isn't really about those within the church, Dr.

And even if they are in the church, I would assume that it approves of using condoms within the bounds of marriage.

This is mainly about those who have sex with multiple partners in their lifetime, at least that's what I got out of it.

Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong about this.
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Old 01-19-2005, 12:10 PM   #17
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Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
This isn't really about those within the church, Dr.

And even if they are in the church, I would assume that it approves of using condoms within the bounds of marriage.

This is mainly about those who have sex with multiple partners in their lifetime, at least that's what I got out of it.

Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong about this.
Actually the Catholic church disapproves of condoms period.
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Old 01-19-2005, 12:30 PM   #18
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Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
This isn't really about those within the church, Dr.

And even if they are in the church, I would assume that it approves of using condoms within the bounds of marriage.

This is mainly about those who have sex with multiple partners in their lifetime, at least that's what I got out of it.

Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong about this.
The Catholic Church do not think any Catholic should use a condom, married or not.

I think the church needs to wake up to the fact that the spred of AIDS and STI's is a big problem nowadays and follow the example of what is happening in Spain.
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Old 01-19-2005, 12:58 PM   #19
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The role of the Catholic Church is primarily to save souls, not lives. All sex outside of marriage is forbidden in the CC. It is the job of the State to save lives.

People choose to either abide by church teaching or not. The people who ignore the church teaching on premarital and extramarital sex are going to ignore the teaching on condoms anyway.

People who do abide by church teaching don't have to worry about it about.

The tail shouldn't be wagging the dog here. Let the Church play their role and the state do what it desires. People will decide what they need to to to protect themselves.
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Old 01-19-2005, 01:03 PM   #20
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The role of the Catholic Church is primarily to save souls, not lives. All sex outside of marriage is forbidden in the CC. It is the job of the State to save lives.


should the Catholic church not be concerned about the health of it's laiety? churches hold courses on parenting, marriage, etc. why should health not also be a part of it?

i'm not saying it should, but i do think that if the Church feels permission to insert itself into the secular lives of it's congregation and concern itself with much more than saving souls, then the endorsement of condoms as a method to reduce the transmission of STDs seems consistent.

but, yes, it is the job of the State.

and our State currently seems to think that condoms fail at 30%, you can get pregnant from mutual masturbation, 50% of gay teens are HIV+, among other vicious myths concocted to sell an agenda.
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Old 01-19-2005, 01:09 PM   #21
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When you have a body as large and as important as the Catholic Church, it matters very much what they say. WHen you have a body as large and as important as the Catholic Church, you do have people who DO try to live their lives by what the Pope says, and you DO have people worrying about their souls if they do use condoms, hence avoiding the entire subject matter of contraception entirely and, apart from exacerbating the problem of over-population in certain places, you do, by default, help AIDS to become an even greater problem.

When you have a body as large and as important as the Catholic Church, it is obvious that such a stance is outright destructive and detrimental. So no, its not there to save lives, granted, but it shouldn't be part of the problem.

The fact that the Catholic Church in Spain is bein congratulated for their efforts is lamentable - this is something they should have done ages ago.

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Old 01-19-2005, 01:13 PM   #22
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and segments of our society seems to think that anyone can have sex with anyone, anyhow, anywhere, any time with no consequences. Is this a vicious myth? is it concocted to sell an agenda?
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Old 01-19-2005, 01:17 PM   #23
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and segments of our society seems to think that anyone can have sex with anyone, anyhow, anywhere, any time with no consequences. Is this a vicious myth? is it concocted to sell an agenda?

um, no. it also doesn't pose as government funded, "scientifically accurate" information passed out in abstinence-only education programs.

perhaps these "segments of society" would have benefited from scientifically accurate information so they would be aware of the consequences involved, instead of being told that condoms fail and they should just say no.

it is the government's job to educate it's citizens, and equip them with the knoweldge to make informed choices. if one wants to have sex "with anyone, anyhow, anywhere," that is their right to do so.
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Old 01-19-2005, 01:26 PM   #24
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Originally posted by Lara Mullen
The Catholic Church do not think any Catholic should use a condom, married or not.

I think the church needs to wake up to the fact that the spred of AIDS and STI's is a big problem nowadays and follow the example of what is happening in Spain.
I don't see the big deal with condoms if the couple is married. If it can save the lives of non-believers, it raises society's standards on the Catholic Church. I see nothing wrong with what they are doing in this case.

I guess my remaining question is this: Will it save more lives just because the Spanish Catholic Church now approves of their use? Or will it only make the Spanish Catholic Church seem more lenient?
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Old 01-19-2005, 01:27 PM   #25
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A Church that claims to speak for God and claims it's teachings to hold the truth cannot change its fundamental beliefs and promote something contrary to it's tenets. You choose to be a member and subscribe to it's belief system or not. The Catholic Church is one of the only religions in the world that has a central authority. The Spanish CC is going against Rome if indeed the bishops are condoning condom use.

That being said, after reading the article, there may be some misinterpretation. The spokesperson for the bishop's conference was quoted as saying,"Condoms have a place in the global prevention of AIDS," which is an absolutely true statement. Much can be inferred from that statement alone. I'll wait til a bishop speaks out on this.

But if the Catholic Church officially supports the use of condoms to prevent the spread of AIDS, it follows that they'll be distributing them at church soon. Ridiculous.
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Old 01-19-2005, 01:33 PM   #26
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um, no. it also doesn't pose as government funded, "scientifically accurate" information passed out in abstinence-only education programs.

perhaps these "segments of society" would have benefited from scientifically accurate information so they would be aware of the consequences involved, instead of being told that condoms fail and they should just say no.

it is the government's job to educate it's citizens, and equip them with the knoweldge to make informed choices. if one wants to have sex "with anyone, anyhow, anywhere," that is their right to do so.
I'm not aware of such information. Don't doubt that someone has proposed such a program.

we get into sticky territory on the subject of the government educating it's citizens because people have differing views of what "Knowledge" we equip our children with.
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Old 01-19-2005, 01:35 PM   #27
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Forgive me, drhark, but it does 'not' follow that they will be distributing condoms at church soon. A body can remain passive, at the very least, while not condemning the action itself. In fact, the Catholic Church is very good at that, if history is anything to go by.

Respectfully, I question your logic.

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Old 01-19-2005, 01:38 PM   #28
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I often hesitate making comments like this, but if Jesus was in charge of this decision, I would think he would not want the AIDS victims to die, he would heal them by any means, just as he healed the leapers who were outcasted in their society.
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Old 01-19-2005, 01:45 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by drhark
The role of the Catholic Church is primarily to save souls, not lives. All sex outside of marriage is forbidden in the CC. It is the job of the State to save lives.

People choose to either abide by church teaching or not. The people who ignore the church teaching on premarital and extramarital sex are going to ignore the teaching on condoms anyway.

People who do abide by church teaching don't have to worry about it about.

The tail shouldn't be wagging the dog here. Let the Church play their role and the state do what it desires. People will decide what they need to to to protect themselves.
You need your flesh and bone healthy in order to keep the soul here. So protecting lives will allow the Church to saves souls.

You are presuming every Catholic is perfect that they will follow all the teachings or none. That's simply not feasable. You are also presuming that all Catholics are Catholics from day one and abstained all their adult life. What about converts who didn't have religion before and did have sex outside of marriage? Is it wrong for the Catholic church to encourage them to use condoms?
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Old 01-19-2005, 01:48 PM   #30
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too good to be true

Quote:
Spanish Catholic Church denies it accepts condoms to fight AIDS


The Spanish Roman Catholic Church denied that it had condoned the use of condoms as a legitimate way of fighting HIV/AIDS.

"Contrary to what some have said, it is not true that the Church has changed its position on condoms," the Spanish bishops' conference said in a statement.

The text reasserted that, according to Catholic doctrine, "the use of a condom implies immoral sexual behaviour.

"It is not possible to advise people to use condoms, if it goes against their private morality," added the text, issued in response to comments by the bishops' conference general secretary, Reverend Juan Antonio Martinez Camino.

Reverend Camino sent shockwaves through the Catholic Church this week by saying the prophylactic "has its place in the context of the integral and global prevention of AIDS".

"The only conduct to advise is the responsible exercise of sexuality, in line with the moral norm," added the statement, which repeated the official Vatican position that sexual abstinence and fidelity are the best weapons against HIV/AIDS.

Earlier, the Vatican -- where Church doctrine is set out -- quietly but firmly reiterated the official line.

The Vatican forbids use of condoms because they are a form of contraception, and has in the past openly contradicted scientific evidence of their effectiveness as a barrier to HIV, the precursor to AIDS.

A senior Vatican prelate, Bishop Jose Luis Redrado Machite, told AFP the use of condoms was "contrary to Catholic morality".
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