catholic church to probe gays - Page 2 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 09-15-2005, 04:26 PM   #16
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
U2@NYC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Back in Buenos Aires
Posts: 4,281
Local Time: 03:32 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511




i agree with you.

do you see an upcoming split in the church? though i'm a confirmed catholic, i'm not fully up to speed in the way that someone like Melon is, but it seems to me that the messages coming out of Rome and the new pope is that dissenting opinions and viewpoints are going to be less tolerated. what are American Catholics (or Western European Catholics as well) going to do? break from the church? what do you see happening, if anything?
I am also not completely aware of what is going on inside the church but my external view is that we will, unfortunately, see a point of status quo, at least for the time being. Even though more liberal, my sense is that American Catholics and Western European Catholics do realize that the essence of catholicism as a religion and common belief will probably be lost if a fraction breaks up.

However, I have hope on the fact that the Vatican named Pope Benedict as, supposedly, a 'pope of transition' and one should think that a more 'liberal' pope would take over in a couple of years. With that said, the Vatican is a very conservative place and implementing changes, if any, might take a long time.

Summing up, I do not see radical changes happening in catholicism in the next couple of years (and I mean it either way, as I think this gay priest issue would not prosper, as the Vatican will eventually realize that this plays against its own will).
__________________

__________________
U2@NYC is offline  
Old 09-15-2005, 05:00 PM   #17
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
ouizy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: s p o r a t i c
Posts: 3,788
Local Time: 03:32 PM
I think if the number of homosexual priests really is anywhere near 60%, I think a huge fog of hypocrisy is about to be lifted.

I only say this in regards to many in the Catholic church opposing gay marriage.

It would *seem* that some of these people who are so outspoken against the issue, may indeed be themselves of the homosexual variety.

My religion is chocolate.
__________________

__________________
ouizy is offline  
Old 09-15-2005, 05:56 PM   #18
Blue Crack Addict
 
verte76's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: hoping for changes
Posts: 23,331
Local Time: 08:32 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by U2@NYC


The laity, like myself, will not accept everything a priest may say. I consider myself Catholic, I go to mass almost every Sunday, and, regardless, I do not necessarily agree with what some (not all of them) bishops advocate against gay priests.

With that in mind, I think that the Catholic church has a whole other set of very valid standards that I respect and those are what I follow. And I think that is the way the majority of Catholics think.
I agree. I practice Catholicism but don't accept the Church's position on homosexuality, and I prefer the marriage teachings of the Eastern Orthodox Church to ours. But I can't see myself becoming Eastern Orthodox (I thought of it when I became a Christian in 1989 but I chose to becomoe Catholic).
__________________
verte76 is offline  
Old 09-15-2005, 07:18 PM   #19
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
U2@NYC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Back in Buenos Aires
Posts: 4,281
Local Time: 03:32 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by ouizy
I think if the number of homosexual priests really is anywhere near 60%, I think a huge fog of hypocrisy is about to be lifted.

I only say this in regards to many in the Catholic church opposing gay marriage.

It would *seem* that some of these people who are so outspoken against the issue, may indeed be themselves of the homosexual variety.

My religion is chocolate.
Your statement arguing that 60% of priests are homosexual is pretty disrespectful to the people that chose the priest vocation because they truly believe in it. That number cannot be proved in any way as you would need to interrogate every priest and basically have them break their vows. I have good friends that are priests who truly believe in abstinence because they sense their duty to God goes beyond sexual inclination.

Indirectly, one could derive from your statement that 60% of the priests "felt they were homosexual, so they decided to become priests".

So, and even if your religion is "chocolate", please try not to disrespect those who, like me, still admire many of those who chose to be priests.
__________________
U2@NYC is offline  
Old 09-15-2005, 07:43 PM   #20
ONE
love, blood, life
 
melon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 11,781
Local Time: 03:32 PM
Funny how calling priests "homosexual" is an insult. But since we're talking about stereotyping, the Vatican has long believed that all homosexuals are deviant pervert child molesters. So, frankly, should I thus feel any qualms about stereotyping Catholicism?

The issue of the priesthood being primarily homosexual is close to 1000 years old. St. Peter Damian's book, "Liber Gomorrhianus" (1049), was then widely criticized amongst the clergy and Pope Leo IX, who originally supported it, was forced to distance himself from the text as well. Of course, those were the days that the clergy was more headstrong and actually vocalized protest. These days, they're nothing more than muted lapdogs that haven't had an original thought in years, minus some zealous Latin American priests whose liberation theology is technically condemned by the Vatican.

Melon
__________________
melon is offline  
Old 09-15-2005, 10:05 PM   #21
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
U2Bama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Gulf Coast State of Mine
Posts: 3,405
Local Time: 02:32 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by verte76


I practice Catholicism but don't accept the Church's position on homosexuality, and I prefer the marriage teachings of the Eastern Orthodox Church to ours.
Are you talking about the Orthodox view on marriage of priests? My understanding of their doctrine on homosexuality is that they have the same position as the Catholic church.

~U2Alabama
__________________
U2Bama is offline  
Old 09-15-2005, 10:09 PM   #22
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
U2Bama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Gulf Coast State of Mine
Posts: 3,405
Local Time: 02:32 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by melon
Funny how calling priests "homosexual" is an insult. But since we're talking about stereotyping, the Vatican has long believed that all homosexuals are deviant pervert child molesters. So, frankly, should I thus feel any qualms about stereotyping Catholicism?

I can't speak for U2@NYC, but I took his entire post to mean that "sexual inclination" in general, of any orientation, would solicit a breaking of the vows, but in this case specifically homosexuality since a percentage was attributed to it. Heterosexual activity would likewise be a breaking of the vows.

~U2Alabama
__________________
U2Bama is offline  
Old 09-15-2005, 10:18 PM   #23
Blue Crack Addict
 
anitram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NY
Posts: 16,295
Local Time: 03:32 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
do you see an upcoming split in the church? though i'm a confirmed catholic, i'm not fully up to speed in the way that someone like Melon is, but it seems to me that the messages coming out of Rome and the new pope is that dissenting opinions and viewpoints are going to be less tolerated. what are American Catholics (or Western European Catholics as well) going to do? break from the church? what do you see happening, if anything? [/B]
I see nothing really happening, and it's because Catholicism is a cultural phenomenon as much as it is a religious one. I've often found that when speaking with Protestants who don't have an understanding of what this means that they don't understand exactly the scope of it. But to me, Catholicism is somewhere between Protestant Christianity and Judaism - both religious and cultural. And there are most certainly Catholics I know, in large numbers (majority even), who do not agree with all the teachings of the Church, but they do feel a strong cultural connection to the institution, and furthermore often belong to ethnic groups which basically consider themselves to be ethnically Catholic in much the same way that a Jew can feel ethnically Jewish. Because of that, I think there will be no major split - people will keep on doing as they have thus far.
__________________
anitram is online now  
Old 09-15-2005, 10:46 PM   #24
Refugee
 
wizard2c's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,580
Local Time: 08:32 PM
Re: reply

Quote:
Originally posted by wizard2c
Reminds me of the Garth Brooks' song "We Shall Be Free"....."when we're feel to love anyone we choose"..................

it's actually a very well versed song BTW...."when no one walks a step behind......and there's only one race......and that's Mankind.....then we shall be free."

carol
wizard2c
Sorry Garth for the typo since it's your song......."when we're free to love anyone we choose"......

{not having a good day}
__________________
wizard2c is offline  
Old 09-16-2005, 01:13 AM   #25
Blue Crack Addict
 
Moonlit_Angel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: In a dimension known as the Twilight Zone...do de doo doo, do de doo doo...
Posts: 19,270
Local Time: 02:32 PM
Re: Re: reply

Quote:
Originally posted by wizard2c
{not having a good day}
. Aw, I'm sorry to hear that. Hope tomorrow's better for ya .

Angela
__________________
Moonlit_Angel is offline  
Old 09-16-2005, 08:06 AM   #26
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
U2@NYC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Back in Buenos Aires
Posts: 4,281
Local Time: 03:32 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by melon
Funny how calling priests "homosexual" is an insult. But since we're talking about stereotyping, the Vatican has long believed that all homosexuals are deviant pervert child molesters. So, frankly, should I thus feel any qualms about stereotyping Catholicism?

The issue of the priesthood being primarily homosexual is close to 1000 years old. St. Peter Damian's book, "Liber Gomorrhianus" (1049), was then widely criticized amongst the clergy and Pope Leo IX, who originally supported it, was forced to distance himself from the text as well. Of course, those were the days that the clergy was more headstrong and actually vocalized protest. These days, they're nothing more than muted lapdogs that haven't had an original thought in years, minus some zealous Latin American priests whose liberation theology is technically condemned by the Vatican.

Melon
Melon, do not twist my words into something I did not say.

You are a smart guy and clearly saw that my point was related to sexual inclination and how simply stating that '60% of the priests are homosexual' is completely off as it would imply that 60% of the priests do not believe in their vows... no need to impress naive posters with your knowledge of religion history either. We all know you know.

Don't create an argument when there is not one.
__________________
U2@NYC is offline  
Old 09-16-2005, 10:11 AM   #27
ONE
love, blood, life
 
FizzingWhizzbees's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: the choirgirl hotel
Posts: 12,614
Local Time: 08:32 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by U2@NYC
simply stating that '60% of the priests are homosexual' is completely off as it would imply that 60% of the priests do not believe in their vows...
I apologise if this is a stupid question, but how would being gay but never being involved in a sexual relationship mean a priest doesn't believe in the vows he took when becoming a priest? I presume that being attracted to women but never participating in a relationship with one isn't a violation of a priest's vows so why is being attracted to men but never being in a relationship a violation?
__________________
FizzingWhizzbees is offline  
Old 09-16-2005, 10:19 AM   #28
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
U2@NYC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Back in Buenos Aires
Posts: 4,281
Local Time: 03:32 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees


I apologise if this is a stupid question, but how would being gay but never being involved in a sexual relationship mean a priest doesn't believe in the vows he took when becoming a priest? I presume that being attracted to women but never participating in a relationship with one isn't a violation of a priest's vows so why is being attracted to men but never being in a relationship a violation?
This is not what Ouizy meant.
__________________
U2@NYC is offline  
Old 09-16-2005, 10:26 AM   #29
ONE
love, blood, life
 
FizzingWhizzbees's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: the choirgirl hotel
Posts: 12,614
Local Time: 08:32 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by U2@NYC
This is not what Ouizy meant.
Okay, but what did you mean? To me it seemed that you were implying that priests who are gay can't believe in the vows they take to become a priest. Am I completely misinterpreting that and if I am then how should I have interpreted it?
__________________
FizzingWhizzbees is offline  
Old 09-16-2005, 10:28 AM   #30
Blue Crack Distributor
 
Headache in a Suitcase's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Stateless
Posts: 56,441
Local Time: 03:32 PM
well they've been probing alter boys for years... about time they started on someone of legal age.
__________________

__________________
Headache in a Suitcase is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:32 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com