Catholic Bishop US formula = Caligula of Rome - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 05-06-2003, 08:53 PM   #1
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,881
Local Time: 03:59 AM
Catholic Bishop US formula = Caligula of Rome

US Bishops' official identifies "ethic of fear"


Post September 11 2001 jitters are leading the US to embrace a formula of instilling fear of the United States as a protection from catastrophic attacks that echoes the philosophy of the brutal Roman emperor Caligula, acording to the director of the Office of International Justice and Peace at the US Conference of Catholic Bishops.

Gerry Powers was speaking at a forum to evaluate the legacy of the use of "preventive force" in the recent US invasion of Iraq.

He said: "While a doctrine of preventive war may derive in part from an ethic of responsibility - to protect ourselves and the world from catastrophic attacks - it also has elements of an ethic of fear."

Powers acknowledged that that "ethic of fear" comes from the understandable preoccupation of Americans with their own fears and vulnerabilities in the face of global terrorism.

"Let them hate us if they will, provided only that they fear us," he said, chacterising the new phenomenon.

Powers was speaking at a colloquium on the ethical issues of pre-emptive war hosted last week by Wesley Theological Seminary and its Churches' Centre for Theology and Public Policy.

"That formula might work for the New York Yankees, but it did not work for the Romans and it will not work for us," Powers said. "It will not work because it creates a cycle of fear that fuels a cycle of violence."

SOURCE
Catholic News Service
__________________

__________________
Dreadsox is offline  
Old 05-06-2003, 09:06 PM   #2
New Yorker
 
sharky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 2,637
Local Time: 03:59 AM
wow, really interesting article. say what you want about the handling of the sex scandal in the Catholic church, but I actually agree with them on this point. Thanks for the article.
__________________

__________________
sharky is offline  
Old 05-07-2003, 12:17 PM   #3
Blue Crack Addict
 
verte76's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: hoping for changes
Posts: 23,331
Local Time: 08:59 AM
I agree with this also.
__________________
verte76 is offline  
Old 05-07-2003, 01:02 PM   #4
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,697
Local Time: 02:59 AM
The Catholic Church as a whole has really suprised me, in a good way, with their stance on the war.
__________________
BVS is offline  
Old 05-07-2003, 05:35 PM   #5
Refugee
 
Anthony's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: London, UK
Posts: 1,538
Local Time: 08:59 AM
Heh, leave it to the Catholic Church to know, and lecture about, fear.

Ant.
__________________
Razors pain you; Rivers are damp;
Acids stain you; And drugs cause cramp.
Guns aren't lawful; Nooses give;
Gas smells awful; You might as well live.

Dorothy Parker, 'Resumé'
Anthony is offline  
Old 05-07-2003, 05:51 PM   #6
ONE
love, blood, life
 
FizzingWhizzbees's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: the choirgirl hotel
Posts: 12,614
Local Time: 08:59 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
The Catholic Church as a whole has really suprised me, in a good way, with their stance on the war.
Me too. It seems like they're one of the few religions which is actually consistent on the subject. I respect that.
__________________
FizzingWhizzbees is offline  
Old 05-07-2003, 06:01 PM   #7
ONE
love, blood, life
 
adamswildhoney's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Somewhere in NorCal
Posts: 10,333
Local Time: 12:59 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Anthony
Heh, leave it to the Catholic Church to know, and lecture about, fear.

Ant.
That is all the church seems to do. I mean my mom was raised to fear God and what will happen to her when she dies, I on the other hand was raised to not fear God but know that he will love and care all of his people. My gram is a devout Catholic and therefore instilled fear into her kids about God and church. Dont get me wrong NOT all devout Catholics do that but for the most part the ones that I have come across do. My mom is a little more leant with religion bc of it being pushed on her when she was younger, so I was lucky enough to be raised knowing God loves me and should not be feared.
__________________
adamswildhoney is offline  
Old 05-07-2003, 06:10 PM   #8
Blue Crack Addict
 
nbcrusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 12:59 AM

"The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom; all who follow his precepts have good understanding." Psalm 111:10.

We are to fear the Lord. All too often, the wrong type of fear is taught......
__________________
nbcrusader is offline  
Old 05-07-2003, 06:12 PM   #9
Refugee
 
Anthony's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: London, UK
Posts: 1,538
Local Time: 08:59 AM
Well, I do think that in some ways the 'modern Catholicism' (if there is such a thing) may start to worship a different kind of God, but unfortunately Catholicism is too deep-seated in fear. However, that can be said of many religions, which have a far more fearsome God. My mother was raised to fear God, but broke free from it, and though I am a Catholic, I can hardly consider myself a conventional, or even proper, one.

Not to say that I disagree with the comment in question nor the stance of the Catholic Church, however, I find it rich that they're accusing the American philosophy of adopting an 'ethic of fear'.

Hehe. Too rich.

Ant.
__________________
Razors pain you; Rivers are damp;
Acids stain you; And drugs cause cramp.
Guns aren't lawful; Nooses give;
Gas smells awful; You might as well live.

Dorothy Parker, 'Resumé'
Anthony is offline  
Old 05-07-2003, 06:15 PM   #10
Refugee
 
Anthony's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: London, UK
Posts: 1,538
Local Time: 08:59 AM
I don't know if you made that comment out of jest or not (I'm guessing that you didn't), but I don't agree. I could never bring myself to love God but fear him at the same time. I can understand what type of fear one can have, that is true - and it is a 'proper' fear, so to speak, but, personally, my Love for God should be unconditional. I should love him out of goodness, not out of fear of his wrath.

I don't agree with the view of the Catholic Church that you should do this or that, or you shall be cast into the fires of hell. Thats a lot of fear given to a lot of people.

Ant.
__________________
Razors pain you; Rivers are damp;
Acids stain you; And drugs cause cramp.
Guns aren't lawful; Nooses give;
Gas smells awful; You might as well live.

Dorothy Parker, 'Resumé'
Anthony is offline  
Old 05-07-2003, 06:28 PM   #11
Blue Crack Addict
 
anitram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NY
Posts: 16,297
Local Time: 03:59 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Anthony
I should love him out of goodness, not out of fear of his wrath.


I couldn't agree more.
__________________
anitram is offline  
Old 05-07-2003, 06:58 PM   #12
Blue Crack Addict
 
nbcrusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 12:59 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Anthony
I don't know if you made that comment out of jest or not (I'm guessing that you didn't), but I don't agree.
I don't joke about Scripture.



Fear of the Lord is respect, awe, not wanting to disappoint. I would say it is a positive aspect of our love of God, not a motivating factor. It expands our love of God beyond being thankful for the stuff we get.



Fear is not cowering. I do not fear Hell. No believer should.

We will need to stand before the Lord and make an account of our life. That is why I do not get "sloppy" with Scripture or my witness to others.
__________________
nbcrusader is offline  
Old 05-07-2003, 07:07 PM   #13
Refugee
 
Anthony's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: London, UK
Posts: 1,538
Local Time: 08:59 AM
Judging from your previous posts, I gathered that you didn't joke or get sloppy about scripture, and it was not my intention to accuse you of such.

I understand the concept of fear, nbcrusader, I simply don't believe in it. And I'm not against it, though, I'm against the other type of fear religion has engineered throughout the ages. I'm referring to the type of fear that the Church prescribres when a person chooses to divorce, or, if one were to be strict, even have protected sex. It is this fear that we must constantly adhere to religion, or otherwise taste the fires of hell, that I find inconceivable.

Ant.
__________________
Razors pain you; Rivers are damp;
Acids stain you; And drugs cause cramp.
Guns aren't lawful; Nooses give;
Gas smells awful; You might as well live.

Dorothy Parker, 'Resumé'
Anthony is offline  
Old 05-07-2003, 07:19 PM   #14
Blue Crack Addict
 
nbcrusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 12:59 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Anthony
Judging from your previous posts, I gathered that you didn't joke or get sloppy about scripture, and it was not my intention to accuse you of such.
No worries my friend.

I guess what you are describing is our reaction to our own sin. What should we do? As a believer in Jesus Christ, we will not taste the fires of Hell as we are under Grace. God himself gives us this assurance.

I agree completely that the Church should not prescribe fear or punishment. However, for me to be an effective Christian, I must personally take an account of my sin before God.
__________________
nbcrusader is offline  
Old 05-07-2003, 07:22 PM   #15
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 11,961
Local Time: 03:59 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Anthony
I understand the concept of fear, nbcrusader, I simply don't believe in it. And I'm not against it, though, I'm against the other type of fear religion has engineered throughout the ages. I'm referring to the type of fear that the Church prescribres when a person chooses to divorce, or, if one were to be strict, even have protected sex. It is this fear that we must constantly adhere to religion, or otherwise taste the fires of hell, that I find inconceivable.
i'm with you anthony. i'm not even sure if i believe i hell.
__________________

__________________
Screaming Flower is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:59 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com