Canadian gay married couple denied entry to US

[spinninghead77]

What does everyone think of this?
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...918/wl_canada_afp/canada_us_gays_030918220326

Canadian gay married couple denied entry to US
Thu Sep 18, 6:03 PM ET


MONTREAL (AFP) - The United States denied entry to Canada's first legally married gay couple because they had filled out a single customs form as a family, Canada's foreign ministry said.


AFP/File Photo



A US customs official at Toronto Pearson International Airport denied entry to Kevin Bourassa and Joe Varnell, CBC television said.


They are the couple whose case led an Ontario court to recognize gay marriage in June.


The customs agent denied them entry as a family because the United States does not recognize same-sex marriage. The United States allows all members of a family to use the same form.


The two men refused to fill out separate forms and canceled their trip to Braselton, Georgia, where they were due to participate in a human rights conference.


Doug Elliott, a lawyer for the couple, told the CBC he was considering legal action against the Canadian and US governments.


"A law in Canada does not have extra-territorial application. Each country is free to impose conditions of entry to its territory," foreign ministry spokesman Reynold Doiron said.


Varnell and Bourrassa celebrated their union in January 2001 in Toronto, a few weeks after the Netherlands enacted a law allowing gay marriage. They won their legal battle to have their relationship legally recognized as marriage in the province of Ontario.


A court in British Columbia followed soon afterward.


Canada's federal government is considering legislation that would recognize same-sex marriage throughout the country.

 

[MissVelvetDress_75]

seriously, what harm do they pose to any one of us?

 

[verte76]

That's right, what harm is going to take place if this couple is allowed to enter the U.S? They're not exactly terrorists.

 

[bonoman]

They were only asked to fill out seperate forms. Big deal. They are making this out to be some sort of scandal. These two guys really get under my skin becuse it seems to me they are always looking for a story and to make the gov't look as if they are restricting them. Give me a break! All they needed to do was fill seperate forms. You have got to respect other countrys laws and they arent!

 

[BVS]

They were only asked to fill out seperate forms. Big deal. They are making this out to be some sort of scandal. These two guys really get under my skin becuse it seems to me they are always looking for a story and to make the gov't look as if they are restricting them. Give me a break! All they needed to do was fill seperate forms. You have got to respect other countrys laws and they arent!

It's something called principle. They're being asked to fill out forms that call them out as something they are not. They're pointing out how stupid our laws are.

 

[womanfish]

We were right to turn them away. They were gonna come down here and turn us queer!

______________________________
General Wesley Clark for President

 

[BAW]

I support gay marriage 100% but I don't think being asked to fill out 2 forms was such a huge deal. I don't think the US is the only country that would have asked them to do it.

 

[spinninghead77]

There are countires that don't recognize interracial marriage. Everyone would be up in arms if an American couple were asked to fill out two seperate forms to enter one of those countries.

 

[Ms. I-Lo]

There are countires that don't recognize interracial marriage. Everyone would be up in arms if an American couple were asked to fill out two seperate forms to enter one of those countries.

i agree.

 

[nbcrusader]

There are countires that don't recognize interracial marriage. Everyone would be up in arms if an American couple were asked to fill out two seperate forms to enter one of those countries.

Yes, there would be controversy. But you are talking about a sovereign country. Do you respect the local laws and customs, or expect the country to meet your individual expectations and criteria?

 

[womanfish]

They should have filled out two forms. In my opinion it's like going to a foriegn country and demanding they speak your language and serve your food. I travel a lot and most Americans/Canadians I see abroad sicken me with their selfish, pompous attitudes.

_______________________________
General Wesley Clark for President

 

[BVS]

Do you respect the local laws and customs, or expect the country to meet your individual expectations and criteria?

But I think they are trying to make a point. Some laws do not make sence. It's not a matter of expecting a country to meet your needs. If Rosa Parks never sat at the front of the bus how much longer would segregation have lasted? If we all just blinded followed every ignorant rule and law think of where we'd be. There are still a lot of ignorant and even prejudical and hateful laws. I'm glad they did what they did. We need more people to do the same.

 

[bonoman]

you are asuming that everyone thinks your way. Well guess what, they dont. Alot of Canada doesnt even support this marriage. Its not even fully finalized! You dont live in Canada and dont know the uproar this is causing. People are outraged about this, myself included. You comparing this to Black rights is outragous, in my opinon, this has nothing to do what skin color you are it has to do in what you believe inreligouly and otherwise.

You say its about principel, well i disagree. If you lived in Canada and knew what these two have been doing you would understand. They are media whores who center their lives around controversy. I have no problem with anyone sexuality but when you are doing what these two have been doing it makes me ask what about heterosexuals rights. What ever happened to the defintion of marriage. We through that right out the door and change it! Whats next allowing a person to be married to 10 people or having a father and daughter be married. The defintion of marriage has been in tact for many many years and to tarnis that because homosexuals want equal rights is not right in my world. I have asked many gays what they thought about this and they resent alot of what people have done, they think it will hurt the homosexual community in the long run, for what, a word!

 

[MissVelvetDress_75]

why is gay marriage such an outrage?

people who are against gay marriage's can argue their point all they want, but it still does not make me understand how it is personally effecting a heterosexual marriage and lifestyle.

so please explain how a homosexual marriage is ruining or changing the way you live your day to day life?

 

[BAW]

Its going to take time to sort out all the legalities of this issue.

In the meantime, you still have to follow the laws of the country you are entering, whether you agree with them or not. I would never presume to try and enter Canada and refuse to fill out a form correctly because I disagreed with it. And if I did and they refused to let me in, it would be my own fault.

And would this even big such a huge deal if it didn't involve the US? Would this have made national news if they were turned away from Mexico or Ireland?

 

[FizzingWhizzbees]

You comparing this to Black rights is outragous, in my opinon, this has nothing to do what skin color you are it has to do in what you believe inreligouly and otherwise.

It's comparable to demanding rights for Black people because it's about civil rights. It's about saying that nobody should be discriminated against because of their skin colour, their gender, their religion, or yes, their sexuality. It's not about what you believe in anymore than demanding equality for Black people is about whether a person thinks Black people are inferior or not.

what about heterosexuals rights.

Heterosexual rights...? What the fuck else do you want to demand? I'm serious - give me a list of rights you want heterosexuals to have that they don't already. Please.

Whats next allowing a person to be married to 10 people or having a father and daughter be married.

That's nice. Comparing gay people to bigamists and those who commit incest. How lovely.

The defintion of marriage has been in tact for many many years and to tarnis that because homosexuals want equal rights is not right in my world.

Man, I just hate how the definition of "human" is tarnished by applying it to Black people. Just because they want equal rights. HONESTLY!

 

[anitram]

bonoman,

Not everybody in Canada is 'outraged.' I, in fact, and almost everybody I know, couldn't be more pleased that our country is leading they way, along with a number of even more progressive European countries, when it comes to the matter of gay marriage.

Live and let live. Your rights are independent of whether Steve and Mike next door get hitched. You are in no way at all affected by it. And if your religion tells you it is wrong, so what? You don't have a right to pass that judgment on other people any more than a Jain person has a right to tell you that you've got to stop eating meat because you're a murderer. Religion is personal, applies to you, and has no place in a secular state's legislation.

For the record, I would have filled out the two separate forms, because these people were heading to some sort of human rights convention, and to me, their story would be better off told there. I understand principle, but you also don't cut off your nose to spite your face.

 

[melon]

Not everybody in Canada is 'outraged.' I, in fact, and almost everybody I know, couldn't be more pleased that our country is leading they way, along with a number of even more progressive European countries, when it comes to the matter of gay marriage.

What you could do is what everyone else in Canada does...and that is point and laugh at Alberta.

Melon

 

[melon]

Do you respect the local laws and customs, or expect the country to meet your individual expectations and criteria?

Hearing this from the U.S. is quite ironic. Have we not heard of "American cultural imperialism"?

Just because the U.S. is well on its way to being the Western equivalent of Iran certainly doesn't mean that we should merely accept it.

Melon

 

[melon]

I have no problem with anyone sexuality but when you are doing what these two have been doing it makes me ask what about heterosexuals rights.

You have them. Gay rights, in case you haven't figured it out, doesn't negate your rights. Unless, of course, you want your right to be bigoted and discriminatory, in which case, I don't feel sorry for "heterosexuals." The day I have the power to limit your rights is the day you have a right to complain.

Melon

 

[Basstrap]

I can't believe someone compared gays to incestual relationships

 

[Dreadsox]

I support gay marriage 100% but I don't think being asked to fill out 2 forms was such a huge deal. I don't think the US is the only country that would have asked them to do it.

Thank you for dealing with this rationaly.

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

I can't believe someone compared gays to incestual relationships

Neither can I. .

Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
But I think they are trying to make a point. Some laws do not make sence. It's not a matter of expecting a country to meet your needs. If Rosa Parks never sat at the front of the bus how much longer would segregation have lasted? If we all just blinded followed every ignorant rule and law think of where we'd be. There are still a lot of ignorant and even prejudical and hateful laws. I'm glad they did what they did. We need more people to do the same.

Exactly. Just because something's a law doesn't mean it's right.

Ditto everyone else who disagreed with America's actions on this. Well said, guys.

Angela

 

[Dreadsox]

Having read Bonoman's posts for about a year now....and knowing that he is not a bigot from those posts, I can pretty much say he was not comparing gay people to bigamists and incestuous relationships. He is asking where does the line get drawn? The traditional marriage that many in Western Civilization believed in is possibly approaching the brink of change. But where does it end? Where does the change stop?

I respect everyones right to be in love and love who they want. I also believe that being opposed to gay marriage does not automatically make someone a bigot or a hateful person.

While some may view the Civil Rights movement as being a similar struggle as the issues that surround gay rights Bonoman also makes some good points. Gay people were not enslaved, denied the right to vote, denied an education, segregated ect.

Gays have been mistreated and I think everyone on this board would agree that mistreatment of someone in any form is wrong. Now because a person has a personal heritage or background, and they are worried about the preservation that heritage, it does not make them a bigot. Change does not come easy nor quickly enough when you see your life passing by, and for many that is unnaceptable and I am sorry for your pain.

As to the situation above I still believe that it is a form, fill it out and come on in. This country has laws like them or not.

 

[Pinball Wizard]

What you could do is what everyone else in Canada does...and that is point and laugh at Alberta.

Melon

I laugh at myself every day.

However, just because I live within its political sphere, doesn't mean I share its sentiments... I highly protest the way in which the Alberta government handles issues such as these. There seems to be no consideration for public opinion... as long as the economy is good who cares about minority issues right? Be interesting to see the result of a plebiscite or moratorium.

Is there a correlation between the control and power over oil and ignorance? It has certainly solidified the already stubborn nature of the Premier. Especially seen in the lack of ratification and enforcement of federal law... from Kyoto to homosexual rights. I'm glad we're so... progressive.

Sadly, the parallels between Alberta's radical and sovereign tendencies, and the Bush administration towards these same subjects, are disheartening.

I suggest province building. A coalition perhaps?



Just thought I'd say that not all of us subscribe to intolerance. :shhh:

- cujo.

 

[Rono]

Yes, there would be controversy. But you are talking about a sovereign country. Do you respect the local laws and customs, or expect the country to meet your individual expectations and criteria?

If someones behavior is not dangerous for someone else, i see no reason not to respect something like gay couples. it is not if gay people are terrorist or something ( maybe f a terror for the pope )


and customs sound to much like woodenshoe dance,....

 

[Angela Harlem]

I agree Dread. I thought bonoman was asking about where the line was drawn.
While all this is fantastic for Canada, America has not taken the step (yet) to recognise these marriages. It is perhaps comparable to someone who lives in a 6 month young defacto relationship here which is all legally binding, not being recognised in the States (if they had a different definition of that). Some person at the airport was simply doing their job. Wrong as it may be, it is going to take time and a frustrating amount of even more patience by those who wish to enter a gay marriage, for America to change their laws. Hopefully it will happen one day. There is no justifiable reason why any healthy rational non blood related individuals should marry and while Canada slowly makes changes, we have to wait in regard to America.

 

[iacrobat]

Having read Bonoman's posts for about a year now....and knowing that he is not a bigot from those posts, I can pretty much say he was not comparing gay people to bigamists and incestuous relationships. He is asking where does the line get drawn? The traditional marriage that many in Western Civilization believed in is possibly approaching the brink of change. But where does it end? Where does the change stop?

I think there was Quebec bishop who did the same. I don't think it is a fair comparison because you don't have many fathers and daughters wanting to live in a state and matrimony. Marriage is acknowledgement and affirmation of a certain type of relationship (comitted thru life, intimate, child bearing). I don't know, nor have I heard of, anyone who wants to marry their dad or their dog.

As to the situation above I still believe that it is a form, fill it out and come on in. This country has laws like them or not.

I am with Dreadsox and Anitram on this one. Though frustrating, signing the forms an going to the conference with that experience probably would have been more productive.

Maybe someone can explain this to me as well, there is something I am stil unclear about. Why does homosexual marriage threaten heterosexual marriage? Is there something heterosexuals are losing?

I am being genuine here. I am getting married next saturday and don't feel the least bit threatened. Gay marriage does not affect my commitment to my wife or my community.

 

[Angela Harlem]

Congratulations on your upcoming wedding iacrobat! All the best to you both on your wonderful day

I feel as you do that no matter who anyone else wishes to marry, it will have zero impact on my own. With homosexual couples I give them the same best wishes I would give anyone else as it is a union which is a wonderful wonderful thing. How it impacts on anyone personally, I can only hazard a guess at and that is it will be the beginning of the unravelling of all that is considered sacred by the church and to a large part of society. Which, excuse my language, is bullshit. Religion in this context is an unprovable point as no one here on earth can interpret the will of God etc etc with any absolute certainty. Any interpretting an individual does for the sake of his or her own faith is their right and choice but cannot and should not attempt to dictate to another individual. I am all for people following their faith and spreading the word regarding that if that is their choice. It cannot though infringe on another's rights. And using it to restrict marriage which at the end of the day is a union between 2 people (+ God if that is your belief) is well...wrong.
As for how it will affect greater society...I couldn't even guess. It would be ignorant to assume it will have an adverse effect on our views of the family unit and to imply it will encourage homosexuality is as naive.

This is all my take on it and in no way meant to offend anyone or their beliefs. If it has, I apologise.

 

[melon]

As to the situation above I still believe that it is a form, fill it out and come on in. This country has laws like them or not.

If this was happening to interracial couples or Arabs, well, we certainly wouldn't be this forgiving.

Double standards? I think so.

Melon