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Old 09-19-2003, 06:26 PM   #16
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Originally posted by bonoman
You comparing this to Black rights is outragous, in my opinon, this has nothing to do what skin color you are it has to do in what you believe inreligouly and otherwise.
It's comparable to demanding rights for Black people because it's about civil rights. It's about saying that nobody should be discriminated against because of their skin colour, their gender, their religion, or yes, their sexuality. It's not about what you believe in anymore than demanding equality for Black people is about whether a person thinks Black people are inferior or not.

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what about heterosexuals rights.
Heterosexual rights...? What the fuck else do you want to demand? I'm serious - give me a list of rights you want heterosexuals to have that they don't already. Please.

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Whats next allowing a person to be married to 10 people or having a father and daughter be married.
That's nice. Comparing gay people to bigamists and those who commit incest. How lovely.

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The defintion of marriage has been in tact for many many years and to tarnis that because homosexuals want equal rights is not right in my world.
Man, I just hate how the definition of "human" is tarnished by applying it to Black people. Just because they want equal rights. HONESTLY!
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Old 09-19-2003, 06:44 PM   #17
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bonoman,

Not everybody in Canada is 'outraged.' I, in fact, and almost everybody I know, couldn't be more pleased that our country is leading they way, along with a number of even more progressive European countries, when it comes to the matter of gay marriage.

Live and let live. Your rights are independent of whether Steve and Mike next door get hitched. You are in no way at all affected by it. And if your religion tells you it is wrong, so what? You don't have a right to pass that judgment on other people any more than a Jain person has a right to tell you that you've got to stop eating meat because you're a murderer. Religion is personal, applies to you, and has no place in a secular state's legislation.

For the record, I would have filled out the two separate forms, because these people were heading to some sort of human rights convention, and to me, their story would be better off told there. I understand principle, but you also don't cut off your nose to spite your face.
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Old 09-19-2003, 07:01 PM   #18
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Originally posted by anitram
Not everybody in Canada is 'outraged.' I, in fact, and almost everybody I know, couldn't be more pleased that our country is leading they way, along with a number of even more progressive European countries, when it comes to the matter of gay marriage.
What you could do is what everyone else in Canada does...and that is point and laugh at Alberta.

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Old 09-19-2003, 07:06 PM   #19
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Originally posted by nbcrusader
Do you respect the local laws and customs, or expect the country to meet your individual expectations and criteria?
Hearing this from the U.S. is quite ironic. Have we not heard of "American cultural imperialism"?

Just because the U.S. is well on its way to being the Western equivalent of Iran certainly doesn't mean that we should merely accept it.

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Old 09-19-2003, 07:08 PM   #20
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Originally posted by bonoman
I have no problem with anyone sexuality but when you are doing what these two have been doing it makes me ask what about heterosexuals rights.
You have them. Gay rights, in case you haven't figured it out, doesn't negate your rights. Unless, of course, you want your right to be bigoted and discriminatory, in which case, I don't feel sorry for "heterosexuals." The day I have the power to limit your rights is the day you have a right to complain.

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Old 09-19-2003, 07:34 PM   #21
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I can't believe someone compared gays to incestual relationships
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Old 09-19-2003, 08:34 PM   #22
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Originally posted by Bono's American Wife
I support gay marriage 100% but I don't think being asked to fill out 2 forms was such a huge deal. I don't think the US is the only country that would have asked them to do it.
Thank you for dealing with this rationaly.
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Old 09-20-2003, 12:18 AM   #23
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Originally posted by Basstrap
I can't believe someone compared gays to incestual relationships
Neither can I. .

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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
But I think they are trying to make a point. Some laws do not make sence. It's not a matter of expecting a country to meet your needs. If Rosa Parks never sat at the front of the bus how much longer would segregation have lasted? If we all just blinded followed every ignorant rule and law think of where we'd be. There are still a lot of ignorant and even prejudical and hateful laws. I'm glad they did what they did. We need more people to do the same.
Exactly. Just because something's a law doesn't mean it's right.

Ditto everyone else who disagreed with America's actions on this. Well said, guys.

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Old 09-20-2003, 12:52 AM   #24
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Having read Bonoman's posts for about a year now....and knowing that he is not a bigot from those posts, I can pretty much say he was not comparing gay people to bigamists and incestuous relationships. He is asking where does the line get drawn? The traditional marriage that many in Western Civilization believed in is possibly approaching the brink of change. But where does it end? Where does the change stop?

I respect everyones right to be in love and love who they want. I also believe that being opposed to gay marriage does not automatically make someone a bigot or a hateful person.

While some may view the Civil Rights movement as being a similar struggle as the issues that surround gay rights Bonoman also makes some good points. Gay people were not enslaved, denied the right to vote, denied an education, segregated ect.

Gays have been mistreated and I think everyone on this board would agree that mistreatment of someone in any form is wrong. Now because a person has a personal heritage or background, and they are worried about the preservation that heritage, it does not make them a bigot. Change does not come easy nor quickly enough when you see your life passing by, and for many that is unnaceptable and I am sorry for your pain.

As to the situation above I still believe that it is a form, fill it out and come on in. This country has laws like them or not.
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Old 09-20-2003, 01:24 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon
What you could do is what everyone else in Canada does...and that is point and laugh at Alberta.

Melon
I laugh at myself every day.

However, just because I live within its political sphere, doesn't mean I share its sentiments... I highly protest the way in which the Alberta government handles issues such as these. There seems to be no consideration for public opinion... as long as the economy is good who cares about minority issues right? Be interesting to see the result of a plebiscite or moratorium.

Is there a correlation between the control and power over oil and ignorance? It has certainly solidified the already stubborn nature of the Premier. Especially seen in the lack of ratification and enforcement of federal law... from Kyoto to homosexual rights. I'm glad we're so... progressive.

Sadly, the parallels between Alberta's radical and sovereign tendencies, and the Bush administration towards these same subjects, are disheartening.

I suggest province building. A coalition perhaps?



Just thought I'd say that not all of us subscribe to intolerance. :shhh:

- cujo.
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Old 09-20-2003, 01:30 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


Yes, there would be controversy. But you are talking about a sovereign country. Do you respect the local laws and customs, or expect the country to meet your individual expectations and criteria?
If someones behavior is not dangerous for someone else, i see no reason not to respect something like gay couples. it is not if gay people are terrorist or something ( maybe f a terror for the pope )


and customs sound to much like woodenshoe dance,....
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Old 09-20-2003, 01:39 AM   #27
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I agree Dread. I thought bonoman was asking about where the line was drawn.
While all this is fantastic for Canada, America has not taken the step (yet) to recognise these marriages. It is perhaps comparable to someone who lives in a 6 month young defacto relationship here which is all legally binding, not being recognised in the States (if they had a different definition of that). Some person at the airport was simply doing their job. Wrong as it may be, it is going to take time and a frustrating amount of even more patience by those who wish to enter a gay marriage, for America to change their laws. Hopefully it will happen one day. There is no justifiable reason why any healthy rational non blood related individuals should marry and while Canada slowly makes changes, we have to wait in regard to America.
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Old 09-20-2003, 05:14 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
Having read Bonoman's posts for about a year now....and knowing that he is not a bigot from those posts, I can pretty much say he was not comparing gay people to bigamists and incestuous relationships. He is asking where does the line get drawn? The traditional marriage that many in Western Civilization believed in is possibly approaching the brink of change. But where does it end? Where does the change stop?
I think there was Quebec bishop who did the same. I don't think it is a fair comparison because you don't have many fathers and daughters wanting to live in a state and matrimony. Marriage is acknowledgement and affirmation of a certain type of relationship (comitted thru life, intimate, child bearing). I don't know, nor have I heard of, anyone who wants to marry their dad or their dog.

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As to the situation above I still believe that it is a form, fill it out and come on in. This country has laws like them or not.
I am with Dreadsox and Anitram on this one. Though frustrating, signing the forms an going to the conference with that experience probably would have been more productive.

Maybe someone can explain this to me as well, there is something I am stil unclear about. Why does homosexual marriage threaten heterosexual marriage? Is there something heterosexuals are losing?

I am being genuine here. I am getting married next saturday and don't feel the least bit threatened. Gay marriage does not affect my commitment to my wife or my community.
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Old 09-20-2003, 05:49 AM   #29
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Congratulations on your upcoming wedding iacrobat! All the best to you both on your wonderful day

I feel as you do that no matter who anyone else wishes to marry, it will have zero impact on my own. With homosexual couples I give them the same best wishes I would give anyone else as it is a union which is a wonderful wonderful thing. How it impacts on anyone personally, I can only hazard a guess at and that is it will be the beginning of the unravelling of all that is considered sacred by the church and to a large part of society. Which, excuse my language, is bullshit. Religion in this context is an unprovable point as no one here on earth can interpret the will of God etc etc with any absolute certainty. Any interpretting an individual does for the sake of his or her own faith is their right and choice but cannot and should not attempt to dictate to another individual. I am all for people following their faith and spreading the word regarding that if that is their choice. It cannot though infringe on another's rights. And using it to restrict marriage which at the end of the day is a union between 2 people (+ God if that is your belief) is well...wrong.
As for how it will affect greater society...I couldn't even guess. It would be ignorant to assume it will have an adverse effect on our views of the family unit and to imply it will encourage homosexuality is as naive.

This is all my take on it and in no way meant to offend anyone or their beliefs. If it has, I apologise.
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Old 09-20-2003, 07:17 AM   #30
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Originally posted by Dreadsox
As to the situation above I still believe that it is a form, fill it out and come on in. This country has laws like them or not.
If this was happening to interracial couples or Arabs, well, we certainly wouldn't be this forgiving.

Double standards? I think so.

Melon
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