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Old 11-22-2005, 11:46 PM   #1
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Canadian Elections?

Looks like Paul Martin and the Liberals are going to fall, just in time for a Christmas election. Even the NDP appears to favor elections, so any confidence vote with the Tories, NDP, and the Bloc united would mean the end.

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/natio...exn051116.html

And I read that Harper will try another gay bashing campaign to garner votes. That didn't work last time, so I hope it won't work this time. Of course, the Liberals have stayed in power for so long, because they've been able to portray the Tories as a bunch of intolerant fascists. The problem, of course, is that they essentially are. Why can't Harper learn from his mistakes? I tend to think that if Harper just let same-sex marriage go, acknowledging that it's there to stay, the Liberals wouldn't be able to paint the party as "intolerant" this time and, particularly if the Tories were able to create an effective, yet clearly "conservative" economic reform strategy, they would probably actually win, if only because with the Liberals being in power for over a decade, it's easier for the opposition to win.

Thoughts?

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Old 11-23-2005, 12:12 AM   #2
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The election would fall after Christmas.

Either way, I think it's completely idiotic. Martin will call an election shortly after the holidays anyway, so this timing makes very little sense.

I hate to borrow this term, but Jack Layton is a flip flopper. I am no huge fan of Paul Martin (I'm rather indifferent toward him), but I do agree with his view that either you have confidence in the government or you do not. Layton is being shortsighted and stupid here, IMO, and should have held back, waiting for PM to call the election himself.

As for what will happen? I predict absolutely nothing. The Liberals will win another minority government, and that's that. Taxpayer dollars wasted on nothing.

Far be it for me to help out the Conservatives, but they really need to boot Harper. He's creepy and unlikeable and they will never get seats out in Ontario and Quebec with him at the helm. Fair or not, these two provinces control the way the country is run, and it's patently obvious that any party which advocates any kind of Bushism, no matter how slight, is going to be sent packing faster than you can say poutine.
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Old 11-23-2005, 12:20 AM   #3
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the fall of the government is ridiculous, as anitram said, because martin will call an election after the final gomery report in february anyway. this makes no sense to bump it up a few weeks.

the conservatives under harper will never, ever form government in canada.

that's not my concern.

at this point, i wish martin victory that will allow him to form a ma7ority government. our country's finances have never looked better than they currently are, and despite the scandal, what else can you really say against what the liberals have done in the last decade?

and the conservatives are the alliance, let's not forget that.

as for the ndp, i like their socialism IDEALS but to me they do not seem realistic, and would merely harm canada's robust economy. we're taxed enough, thank you.

the green party, however, would be a nice alternative. once paul martin retires, i'll most likely change my vote from the liberals over to the green's.
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Old 11-23-2005, 12:24 AM   #4
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as for the gay bashing, melon, i really don't think that harper will go that route.

that's actually a bit strong. though, on that same note, there are members of his party who no doubt have expressed extreme views of intolerance in the past, and it wouldn't surprise me if they popped up again during an election campaign.

the bloc will try and win every single seat in quebec, while the conservatives will try and break ground in ontario to form a minority government at best.

the ndp, meanwhile, will try and promote themselves as being the logical replacement of the liberals, minus the scandal and corruption.
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Old 11-23-2005, 12:27 AM   #5
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Big waste of time and money.

Even if the Conservatives win, it will be a minority government and they will get booted out quicker than the time it takes to do a roll call in the House.

Yep, Anitram is right on, either you're corrupt or not. Kick em out now or don't.

Also, corruption in government is a ridiculous issue to show a difference between the parties. It comes with the job.

Another factor is I don't think there are any viable options other than the Liberals right now which is just sad. The oppostion parties are so poorly run and can't even rally a good attack on the Liberals no matter what they do. If they can't organize their own party, why should we trust them to run the government?

Our political system is so wacko right now, I think we are almost heading towards the Italian model.
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Old 11-23-2005, 12:28 AM   #6
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oh, and one more thing...

if the conservative party was really 7ust that - the conservative party of old with a guy like 7oe clark or a woman like belinda straunach (sp?), i'd consider them.

they've expressed and showcased themselves as a tolerable alternative, and bear no resemblance to "conservatives" such as the republicans in the united states.
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Old 11-23-2005, 12:30 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zoomerang96
oh, and one more thing...

if the conservative party was really 7ust that - the conservative party of old with a guy like 7oe clark or a woman like belinda straunach (sp?), i'd consider them.

they've expressed and showcased themselves as a tolerable alternative, and bear no resemblance to "conservatives" such as the republicans in the united states.
Exactly, the Conservatives of old were different in fiscal policies and not social policies. This Alliance takeover is just bad for that party.
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Old 11-23-2005, 08:31 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zoomerang96
if the conservative party was really 7ust that - the conservative party of old with a guy like 7oe clark or a woman like belinda straunach (sp?), i'd consider them.

they've expressed and showcased themselves as a tolerable alternative, and bear no resemblance to "conservatives" such as the republicans in the united states.
Of course, Belinda Stronach is a Liberal now, and after all that drama between her and Peter MacKay, I doubt she'd ever go back. Or even be allowed back.

Harper is just a moron. I know exactly what he did. Back in the last election, he hired Republican strategists from the U.S. who told him to go on a strategy of divisive gay bashing, rather than actually creating a platform. It's petty and it's completely insulting to everyone, namely the Canadian public. But now you can see how the GOP stays in power when its sole desire is to do absolutely nothing. Guaranteed, though: Harper is going to try again. Good thing that Canada doesn't have a large bigot vote like the U.S. does or it just might have worked last time. But the Tories did make gains. Here's hoping they fall flat this time around.

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Old 11-23-2005, 10:18 AM   #9
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I'm hoping the obsessive way they've pursued this needless election bites the Tories in the ass. The public isn't interested in it, and their absolute inability to compromise and wait for a period of just weeks (!!) really goes to show just how open they are to outside ideas.

I'm kinda like bear - I like the social ideas behind the NDP, I'm just not sure they are able to effect any real change that way. And we would be better off with a Liberal majority, not only because we are enjoying stability, unprecedented prosperity, a strong dollar and aren't losing lives and respect in Iraq, but because it would prevent another stupid election in 18 months.
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Old 11-23-2005, 08:56 PM   #10
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agreed with both anitram and melon.

i've been wondering lately if this whole obsessive attitude being displayed by the tories will come back to bite them in the ass.

the last polls i saw showed the liberals at 34 per cent, the conservatives at 28, and the ndp around 20.


if that's the way the voting would end up, we'd be in the same boat as we were before. nothing would have changed, and for WHAT? to see harper come in second place again?

honestly, i am SO sick of the bitching going on, i could care less what the opposition has to say. look at the facts! this came out today:

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2...319568-cp.html

OTTAWA (CP) - Statistics Canada says job prospects for young people, which were at a dismal 21-year-low in 1997, have rebounded sharply amid a rosy economy.

The agency says the recession of the early 1990s had a lasting effect on the youth labour market, but things have since turned up, with employment growth that exceeds the growth in adult jobs.

Between 1997 and 2004, 428,000 young people found jobs, a growth rate of 21.1 per cent and well above the 15.8 per cent in growth in adult employment.

The agency says the overall unemployment rate among young people fell to 13.4 per cent last year from 16.3 per cent in 1997.

The report says the strong economy has been especially good for young women, who found work at a faster pace than young men.

-------

our healthcare might not be in the best shape, but don't forget - it was nearly a year ago when the provinces all agreed on that new health deal with the feds. they have the money, now the onus is on the provinces to get healthcare on track and weed out all the beauracratic bullshit that's draining the most cash from the areas where it's needed most.

like i said before, i'd like to see martin win a ma7ority, govern for four years, after which he'd no doubt retire. at that point i'd take a good look at the green party and see what they have to offer.

in all truth, i'm as scared of the ndp in terms of their lack of fiscal sense as i am with the conservatives and their george bush-semi lite attitudes.
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Old 11-23-2005, 09:48 PM   #11
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I think Paul Martin being exonerated by Gomery is going to help him out significantly in the upcoming election.
Of course he'll probably fall flat on his face during the debates like last time but the repercussions from that will be minimal.

The Tories have absolutely no chance of gaining power under Harper.
My prediction: The Tories will lose again, Harper will quit/be ousted, McKay will head the "Conservatives" and depending on how things go, could more than likely be our Prime Minister in another few years. He'll take the Conservatives back to the centre.
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Old 11-24-2005, 01:57 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by anitram
I like the social ideas behind the NDP, I'm just not sure they are able to effect any real change that way. And we would be better off with a Liberal majority, not only because we are enjoying stability, unprecedented prosperity, a strong dollar and aren't losing lives and respect in Iraq, but because it would prevent another stupid election in 18 months.


i am kinda hoping they'll call the election sooner rather than later though, seeing as how good ol' ralph klein is currently on a little speaking tour and is well-poised to stick his foot down his throat once again. no doubt his jabbering about his 'third way' (aka private) healthcare alternative will help put the proverbial nail in the tory coffin, as it did last time.
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Old 11-24-2005, 10:16 AM   #13
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as ladywiththespinninghead alluded to, these things are likely following the next election,

1. unless the conservatives win a majority or a very workable minority (neither of which is conceivable), stephen harper will be done. peter mackay and bernard lord are obvious candidates for future leaders.

2. unless the liberals win a majority (which is more conceivable than the cons, but certainly not likely), paul martin will certainly be in a fight for his life and is likely to lose his role as party leader. belinda stronach, anne maclellan, bill graham (and anyone else who is sponsorship clean) all could be future leaders.

3. jack layton's leadership will be challenged but he probably has the greatest likelihood of surviving, depending on the extent to which he cultivates the ndp vote. no doubt that it will certainly have increased from 2000 and 2004, but will the increase be satisfactory given the opponents and the troubles they had to deal with.

4. the green party will get a larger share of the voting pie, but, still few, if any, seats.
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Old 11-24-2005, 02:47 PM   #14
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The Tories introduced the no-confidence vote this morning - I concur with posts above stating this will come back to bite them in the a**.

A campaign over Christmas?? Nice one
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Old 11-24-2005, 03:15 PM   #15
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My father is pleased that it's in the middle of winter because he figures the ground is frozen so there will be less of those ugly signs up on the lawns since the stake won't go through.
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