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Old 01-10-2006, 10:17 PM   #106
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I've been waiting for the Conservatives to hold a lead in an election race forever! Now that it's happening, it seems surreal.
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Old 01-10-2006, 10:54 PM   #107
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yeah.

it seems surreally awful.

actually, it doesn't seem - it IS.
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Old 01-10-2006, 11:18 PM   #108
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Would a Conservative government be worth it if it means avoiding a referendum down the line in Quebec? (and perhaps separation too)

I'm not saying that's what will happen but it IS a possibility - if the Tories prove themselves a credible federal alternative to the Liberals then support for separation may decline thus negating any reason to hold a referendum.

The Conservatives would need to move slightly more to the centre, however, if they wanted to be seen as a legitimate alternative in Quebec - Quebec isn't, as a whole, a right-leaning province that's for sure.
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Old 01-11-2006, 12:35 AM   #109
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Originally posted by anitram


It's relevant because the construction of standardized tests has not really evolved since the days of the first ones.

Even today, scores are biased in favour of certain groups.

Therefore the tests have deep flaws in them and I really doubt very much that standardized testing has improved our educational system at all.
I'm associated with the education system now. Currently, all the literacy test is doing is:

a) identifying kids who are that far behind
b) either forve feeding them info or help so that they can match the standards of the test (i.e. writing enough 'practice' questions that when the real test rolls around they know how to answer)
c) most of these kids end up dropping out anyway. The ones that are failing are high risk students. The tests aren't changing that. They're just making it more obvious.
d) As test info is availabel online, it's allowing parents to pick and choose 'smart' schools to send their kids to. Consequently, schools that do poorly continue to do poorly, while other schools find a surge in academics. Of course, these results never mention that the large number of failures may be due to special ed, or ESL kids....
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Old 01-11-2006, 01:22 AM   #110
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People, this is a debate about the Federal Election, not Ontario.

Oh thats right Canada does revolve around you....
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Old 01-11-2006, 01:28 AM   #111
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Quote:
Originally posted by ladywithspinninghead
Would a Conservative government be worth it if it means avoiding a referendum down the line in Quebec? (and perhaps separation too)

I'm not saying that's what will happen but it IS a possibility - if the Tories prove themselves a credible federal alternative to the Liberals then support for separation may decline thus negating any reason to hold a referendum.

The Conservatives would need to move slightly more to the centre, however, if they wanted to be seen as a legitimate alternative in Quebec - Quebec isn't, as a whole, a right-leaning province that's for sure.
short answer - yes. it would be worth it.

there needs to be a strong federal presense in quebec, even if it's tory.
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Old 01-11-2006, 01:38 AM   #112
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from my liberal candidates blog:


My riding is one of the poorest in the province, so when I read the note that Harper was planning to repeal the income tax cut for people in the lowest income tax bracket, I thought it was a misprint. He mentions that he will be bringing in other cuts, but I’m not a fan of cuts where you have to pay to save (i.e. the GST) as it favours those with greater financial means. I was sent an example that illustrates how Harper’s GST cut will save Canadians:

• Less than twenty five cents on a Timex, but fifty bucks on a Rolex.
• Four cents on a hamburger, but 10 times that if you can afford steak and lobster.
• Forty cents on a pair of Levi's, but 20 bucks if you could afford to buy a Gucci suit.
• Two hundred and fifty dollars on a Dodge Caravan, but one thousand three hundred dollars on a Porsche Cayenne.


so who does it realyy support!
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Old 01-11-2006, 02:05 AM   #113
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I still don't understand that argument.

If someone spends 1000000 or 1$ they still saved 2%

For a person who can afford to spend only 10000$ a year, 200$ in savings makes a big deal, its a one night stay in a nice resort, something that would most likely be a treat for someone who typically cannot afford to indulge.

Somone who makes 100000$ saves 2000$, so what, he already probably lives a luxurious life so whats 2000$ more or less.

It's the same.

Why do people think its a moral obligation to tax those who may have worked hard tooth and nail to get a job that pays well.

Did anyone catch the debate tonight? Duceppes reference to Martin as Chretien was pretty amusing.
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Old 01-11-2006, 10:17 AM   #114
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The GST tax cut is ridiculous. A person with $100000 or $10000 tax free income does not spend all that money on GST items, much of it goes to food, mortgage and other non GST taxed items. This takes away quite a bit of that money which is supposed to be saved by less GST. Also, according to the premise of saving through spending, umm, how does anyone save money if I have to spend my entire tax free $10000 (by tax free I mean after taxes) to save $ 100 ( $200 in 5 years, not now). I have no money to put into RRSPs, savings account or any investments for the future. You have to spend every single penny you earn to achieve that tiny saving. Plus you don't get a cheque at the end of the year with your savings on it to go to that resort ( which for $200 must be pretty crappy), it's incremental. A penny here, a penny there, it's invisible. It's a gift to the rich who can afford big ticket items (which most Canadians can ill afford) who don't need it, we are a country that supposedly takes care of ALL Canadians, so yes we do have a moral obligation to tax fairly. This cut benefits wealthy Canadians as opposed to the middle class and low income earners, which by the way is the majority of Canadians. The rich are this tiny speck at the top of our social pyramid, they have enough benefits.

If this policy is designed as a stimulus for the economy, it is also wrong. Canadians do not need spending incentives, we are doing a great job of spending. We have productivity problems, we need investment in R & D for the future. The fact that this is a major platform which the Conservatives feel is highly effective already shows me they are heading us down the wrong path.
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Old 01-11-2006, 02:29 PM   #115
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zoomerang96


short answer - yes. it would be worth it.

there needs to be a strong federal presense in quebec, even if it's tory.
I concur. I`ll take 18 months of the Tories in power if that`s what it takes for Quebec anger towards the Liberals to subside and support for separation to decline to the point where talk of a referendum would be almost non-existent. (as it was pre-scandal)
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Old 01-11-2006, 03:30 PM   #116
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Quote:
Truthfully, have you ever TAUGHT? Do you have any idea how incredibly stressful and difficult it is to be a teacher? Don't you dare put them down. I have nothing but respect for the profession, and I think teachers deserve all the help they can get.
I guess I was jaded with a bunch of apathetic high school teachers, one who was a sexual predator. One who didnt have the required documents to teach. And had to be corrected by students on several occasions.

Fact of the matter is, there has been no change in the average intellectual scores of students entering universities Pre and post 'common sense revolution' If you can do the same thing for cheaper why not?

Mandatory teacher testing should be done simply because a teacher better know what they're talking about if they're gonna teach my kid. 35 people per class? University profs can teach 250 students chem 101 with a failure rate not that far off a high school science course, a prof doesnt even have formal teacher training. Fact of the matter is children in Asia and europe get taught in as much as 50-60 people per class with a fraction of the funding, and most of them can come here and be light years ahead of us canadian students.

Also, 8:30 am to 3:30 pm? 3 months off? There are far worse jobs out there for far less.

And I apologize for my generalization. There are good teachers out there and ones who love what they are doing. It was unfair of me to do so.

My humble opinions,
Aaron
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Old 01-11-2006, 04:30 PM   #117
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35 people per class? University profs can teach 250 students chem 101 with a failure rate not that far off a high school science course, a prof doesnt even have formal teacher training. Fact of the matter is children in Asia and europe get taught in as much as 50-60 people per class with a fraction of the funding, and most of them can come here and be light years ahead of us canadian students.

you're joking, right? the university demographic is hardly comparable to a regular classroom. in a regular classroom the the teacher has to be able to accomodate the esl kids, the special needs kids, truant kids, kids living in situations so horrendous that grades may not be their first priority. considered in that light, 35 is a completely unacceptable number.

a university classroom has the cream of the crop - the ones who have the intellectual, psychological, and social skills to succeed in school, most likely with a lot of family support. and they are adults who are PAYING to be there. so they can fuck off all semester and skip the final exam and it's no skin off the prof's back, it's just a waste of tuition money on the student's part.

my friends who have taught in asia tell me that the teachers there are well within their rights to beat students who misbehave (if some of our lovely asian interferencers could shed some more light on this, i'd appreciate it). my guess is that beating up one student would probably ensure that the other 59 students in the room stay fairly well behaved.

teachers are also very well respected in asia. you don't have people ignorantly spouting off about their short work days or insinuating that they are just glorified babysitters. the kids growing up in this culture then respect teachers as well. i could teach 60 kids too if i knew that each and every one of them (and their parents) respected my authority as a teacher in that room. but in canada, that's rarely the case, so we have to adjust our numbers accordingly.
Quote:
Also, 8:30 am to 3:30 pm? 3 months off? There are far worse jobs out there for far less.
bullshit.

unless you're going to send kids to school year-round (which is an option in many places in canada, so feel free), you'll just have to accept that teachers' schedules will be similar (NOT identical) to students' schedules.

and as for the 8:30 - 3:30 schedule, i have NEVER met a teacher who got to school when the students arrived and then left as soon as the students left. when i was teaching full-time, i got to school at 7:30am and left at 6pm at the EARLIEST. and that was just regular day of teaching, prepping and marking - never mind the days where i gave up my lunch hour for student activites, or afterschool when i held homework help or exam prep sessions for students, attended staff meetings, professional development activites, parent conferences, collaborated with other teachers, or participated on the number of committees i was a part of. i think i more than made up for having 6 weeks off in the summer by working 12-14 hour days during the school year. many teachers pursue professional development activities during the summer as well, such as attending conferences, or taking additional coursework. in alberta, many of them mark the departmental exam taken by the students in june. not all of us while away the summer days on the beach.

pardon the rant, but i get really frustrated when people portray teachers as lazy and incompetent. if you want to put a price on my time and expertise as a professional, just remember that that's the same price you're putting on your child's education. you will get what you pay for.
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Old 01-11-2006, 07:07 PM   #118
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Quote:
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The GST tax cut is ridiculous....This cut benefits wealthy Canadians as opposed to the middle class and low income earners, which by the way is the majority of Canadians. The rich are this tiny speck at the top of our social pyramid, they have enough benefits.


We'll see what happens with the GST. It gets thrown around more than smiling babies in the midst of an election setting, then nothing really changes afterwards. The GST really helped drive the Liberals' surpluses for years following Chrétien’s 1993 promise to axe it. It will be hard for any party to put that kind of apple pie back in the fridge.

In terms of helping the working class, and those less fortunate, It's worth noting how both the Liberals and Conservatives supported a proposal last fall that would have lead to billions in corporate tax cuts.
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Old 01-11-2006, 07:09 PM   #119
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Imjhitman, I love you.
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Old 01-11-2006, 07:32 PM   #120
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lmj, bang on.
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