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Old 01-09-2006, 11:07 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally posted by anitram
Harper has this creepy smile on after every sentence.
his hair kinda freaked me out too (not that that matters obviously, but you know what i mean).
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Old 01-09-2006, 11:10 PM   #62
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Gilles Duceppe is quite the debateur. I thought he took Martin and Harper to task tonight.

What I'd like to see is for Liberally inclined voters who don't want to vote Liberal because of the scandal to vote NDP. I have a nagging suspicion they won't, but I'd like them to. Instead of voting 'with the herd', under the impression that a conservative gov't is a certainty no matter how they vote, I'd like to see more NDP votes instead of simply voting to block the conservatives. What kind of an opinion is that? I vote to cancel out person x's vote instead of voting for the policy I like? I mean, I understand that's the reality of the situation, but come on... Duceppe made a strong case against both Harper and Martin. Layton made a strong case for NDP, Duceppe made a strong case for the Bloc and by default of his dismantling the Tory and Liberal tonight - a strong case for the NDP where the Bloc isn't an option for voters.

I'm voting NDP, and hoping beyond hope that there are people of like mind in my area, not a bunch of people taken in by the Liberal party's fearmongering.

It's not just because of the 'corruption/scandal' jabs either, though, that I want to vote NDP. I mean, I'm a student, I'm an entry-level food service worker. I have nothing to lose if the NDP were to win, and everything to gain. My taxes won't go up, and I'll see social benefits as far as public transport, health care, and university education are concerned. Sure, if the Conservatives get in, I won't see those benefits... but if people voted for the best policy instead of fear of the worst, I see no reason why the conservatives would get in anyway.


On the GST cuts proposed... The whole Conservative GST reduction policy just infuriates me beyond belief that they think people will buy that crock. Like lower-middle-class and low-class Canadians benefit from marginal-at-best cost savings. What, are people like me who make $9k a year, going to do with $90 of savings? Invest it? Buy groceries so they can have an extra couple meals a month? Great. Truly, the conservatives are really championing social equity when people who make $90k or $200k are going to be pissing away that extra money like it's nothing, while that scant scrap of extra money doesn't do much to meet the needs of the people who are supposedly being told they're benefiting from the policy. Argh. Plus, like snowbunny speculated, there's the potential for business to just rip-off the consumer by inflating prices slightly... I mean, really, only the wealthy and corporations will really see any benefit out of that proposed cut at all, and for Harper to stand at his podium with his smug smile and tell Canadians that he's cutting taxes for them is just outrageous.

Sure, the proportion is equal, but the scale of spending versus saving is radically different. A company spending $5million saves $50k. What does that mean? Well, that company could employ another person, it could put it towards paying off debt, it could invest, it could do any number of things... none of these are bad things, and I'm not about to argue that they are. Yes, in an abstract way, they serve to benefit Canadians in small ways... maybe it effectively lowers costs and debts and slows inflation, but maybe it doesn't. It seems a large uncertainty, to take that gamble on a blatant lie. If they're operating their business without that $50k as it is, why do they need the cut? If people making $15k/year can expect at most $150 assuming they spend the entirety of their income... what are they really gaining from that? Nothing. I don't think it's a bad policy, but to criticize the Liberals for "lying" to the country, and then to do the very same is ridiculous. Harper is nothing but an arrogant weasle.

Given the gift of retrospect granted by time passed, I'd still rather have lost $200million to a corrupt liberal government that puts the money back into our economy than have waste $200million (and more) and Canadian lives sending us to war in Iraq as the conservatives would have. That point is moot now, though. But we could have made a worse choice then, and we could still yet make a bad one now. *shrug*
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Old 01-09-2006, 11:15 PM   #63
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Don't know how it works in Canada. Here, the ALP tend to spend the big bucks, sticking up for the battlers etc, doing what the people want but can't afford. Then the liberals (conservatives) come in and restore the budget surplus by being the bad guys . . . seems to work OK.
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Old 01-09-2006, 11:17 PM   #64
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Dandy:

What you fail to relize is that he is the leader of our country not just another CEO. I couldnt care less who brought up this issue, this issue has been around for years and has pissed me off since I first heard it. As the leader of a country how are you expected to say to business's 'stay in my country, this is best country in the world because X reasons' when you yourself have choosen not to run your company in Canada. As much as i hate harper, and I hate him, I couldnt see him running a company that went offshore for cheaper taxes.

You complain how we should just focus on the platform, i totally disagree. The platform is the most important issue in the election but the leader's values are important too. The leader you are voting for must have a level of honesty, respect. patriotism, and simple love for this country.

Martin has wanted to be PM all his life, that was his ultimate goal, and fair play to him. Its a loafty goal but a goal none the less. But I think Martin wanting to be PM has clouded his judgement on many issues. For example the outragous handgun ban. This ban would do nothing to stem the gun crimes happening in this country (and yes toronto isnt the only place where there are record murders). He is too oportunistic for my liking.

But to deny that we should not have an insight into the prosepective leaders of our country is nonsense.
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Old 01-09-2006, 11:44 PM   #65
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the conservatives are WAAAY up now.

something like 14 points.

fuck me.

we're gonna have a ma7ority government afterall...

WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON?!!?!? WHAT'S HAPPENED?!!??!?!!?
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Old 01-09-2006, 11:48 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zoomerang96
the conservatives are WAAAY up now.

something like 14 points.

fuck me.

we're gonna have a ma7ority government afterall...

WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON?!!?!? WHAT'S HAPPENED?!!??!?!!?
We're living in the bizarro world. That's the only possible explanation.

If we were living in hell, would we know it?

Melon
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Old 01-09-2006, 11:48 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
The comment was a paraphrase from the 2004 US Election by Cameron Diaz, it was just illustrative of the paranoia presented about conservative politicians. The most amusing thing is the hyperbole presented in this thread, one would think that the election of a (minority) conservative government in Canada would cause the entire hemisphere to implode under the weight of evil

The demands for censorship by deleting posts also do a bang up job in showing how much respect some people have for free speech.

djfeelgood sterling effort defending the contrarian position.
perfect. you want freedom of speech?

here it is. you're the only person to sabotage this thread, and you're not welcome here.

please refrain from posting in this thread.
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Old 01-09-2006, 11:49 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zoomerang96
the conservatives are WAAAY up now.

something like 14 points.

It must be a reaction by the Canadian people against the fanatically liberal media.
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Old 01-09-2006, 11:50 PM   #69
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Originally posted by melon


We're living in the bizarro world. That's the only possible explanation.

If we were living in hell, would we know it?

Melon
MA7ORITY GOVERNMENT.

STEPHEN HARPER.

everything that's been accomplished - gone?

is that possible?

clinton wasn't the best, but anything he did to move the country in the right direction has been wiped RIGHT out.
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Old 01-09-2006, 11:51 PM   #70
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Originally posted by financeguy



It must be a reaction by the Canadian people against the fanatically liberal media.
haha, right.
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Old 01-10-2006, 12:01 AM   #71
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The Tories *might* win, but a majority government?
No way.

The polls fail to capture
a) the strategic voters who are comfortable saying they're NDP voters now but come election day will vote for the Liberals - and the better the Conservatives are doing then the more people you will have changing their vote from NDP to Liberals on January 23rd
b) those voters who will say they are voting for any party other than the Liberal party as a means of punishing the Liberals for their scandals. This happened in 2004 so I don't see why it wouldn't happen again.

The only problem I foresee however is that the more popular the Conservatives become in Quebec, as is occuring, the more likely it is that Ontarians will follow suit.
National unity is a big deal here in Ontario and if Ontarians think Quebeckers would actually vote for a federal party in the Conservatives then that ultimately makes Ontarians more comfortable with Conservatives as well.

On a different note, what I found interesting about the link you provided Zoomerang96 is that 52% of Quebeckers would vote for the Bloc and the remainder would vote for a federal party - of those voting for the Bloc, quite a few are actually federalists and not separatists. What this poll tells me is that support for separation has not surpassed the 50% mark, despite all the fearmongering to the contrary in recent months.
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Old 01-10-2006, 12:05 AM   #72
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We also must relize that if the conservatives numbers go up in Quebec that doesnt really mean that they will win more seats. If they went up ten points in Quebec that will be reflected nationally, but may not materialize in seats.
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Old 01-10-2006, 12:10 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally posted by bonoman
We also must relize that if the conservatives numbers go up in Quebec that doesnt really mean that they will win more seats. If they went up ten points in Quebec that will be reflected nationally, but may not materialize in seats.
Actually I think the one place in Canada where this wouldn't hold true is Quebec. Strong support for either separation or federalism is usually concentrated in certain areas - so for instance it's more than likely that the surge in the Tories' popularity is occurring in a normally federalist stronghold like perhaps in a riding in Montreal but would not be occurring in a place like Quebec City. So I do believe an increase in Conservative support in Quebec would indeed translate into seats.
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Old 01-10-2006, 12:11 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zoomerang96




clinton wasn't the best, but anything he did to move the country in the right direction has been wiped RIGHT out.
Did you really mean Clinton??
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Old 01-10-2006, 12:12 AM   #75
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Quote:
Originally posted by bonoman
We also must relize that if the conservatives numbers go up in Quebec that doesnt really mean that they will win more seats. If they went up ten points in Quebec that will be reflected nationally, but may not materialize in seats.
And, Ontario is still smarting from the Harris reign of terror.

Is that Conservative increase at the polls post-debate?
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