Canada, Mexico, many other countries being snubbed/punished post Iraq by Bush & Co.

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Mrs. Edge

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Canada, Mexico, many other countries being snubbed/punished post Iraq by Bush & Co.

When the US was right in the thick of things with the war, I could maybe understand postponing the visit (which had been planned ages ago), but this is obvious petty snubbing.

It used to be that Mexico was the favoured neighbour (Bush visited them right after election instead of Canada), but I guess we're all part of the "coalition in the doghouse" (my term)....a growing list! :tsk: :rolleyes:

P.S. I have nothing against his praising Australia..that only makes sense. It's just the rest of it that bugs me.


Bush rubs salt in Canada's wound
Has time for Little Rock, not Ottawa
Pointedly praises war ally Australia



TIM HARPER
WASHINGTON BUREAU

WASHINGTON?In the end, George W. Bush chose Arkansas over Ottawa.

Instead of sitting down yesterday with Prime Minister Jean Chr?tien, Bush sidled up to a retired Little Rock businessman named David Shapiro to symbolize his need to pass a key tax-cut plan he hopes he can ride to re-election.

Despite the official line from here that the U.S. president was too preoccupied with war in Iraq to make an official visit to Ottawa, Bush dropped into the Arkansas capital to talk about the domestic economy, making only passing reference to an ongoing war against terrorism.

He did, however, open his remarks to 2,000 supporters with a reference to Australian Prime Minister John Howard, a guest of the Bushes at the president's Texas ranch on the weekend, again heaping praise on him for sending his soldiers to stand side by side with Americans in Iraq.

In what may have been a first, the mention of an Australian prime minister brought prolonged cheers from an Arkansas audience.

"So, I'm on my way back from Crawford to Washington and, what the heck, I thought I'd stop in Arkansas," he said, bringing laughter from an audience likely unaware that Bush was filling a gap in his day book.

On the day that had been long-planned for the first visit to Ottawa by the president, Bush was otherwise occupied. Aboard Air Force One he called Turkish President Ahmet Necdet Sezer to offer condolences and U.S. aid to Turkish earthquake victims. Bush also offered prayers for American tornado victims and joined a roundtable of small-business owners in Little Rock.

After flying back to the White House, Bush had a late afternoon meeting with George Robertson, secretary-general of NATO.

White House spokesperson Scott McClellan, speaking with reporters en route to Arkansas from Texas, denied that a speech focusing on tax cuts and job growth was a quantum leap from cancelling a trip because of ongoing concerns in Iraq.

Bush, in fact, declared an end to major combat in Iraq last week during a much ballyhooed address from the aircraft carrier USS Abraham Lincoln.

"Canada is a friend and ally and the trip to Canada was postponed,'' McClellan said. "That was the decision that was made in mutual consultations with Canada. So it was a mutual decision about postponing the trip.

"The president looks forward to visiting Canada in the future.''

He maintained the reason for the postponement was related to the situation in Iraq.

"Presidential visits to foreign countries aren't done in a day,'' McClellan said.

Despite the official soft sell, Bush is no longer making any secret of the chasm between those who backed his Iraqi invasion and those who did not.

In a variation on the "you're either with us, or against us'' doctrine favoured by Bush, the president was positively fawning when he mentioned Howard. That amounted to a double-edged sword for the Australian leader who faced massive protests at home where he was accused of being a Bush lapdog.

"Australia is an important ally of ours,'' Bush said. "Australia is a strong friend of the United States of America.

"The Australians fought beside our forces in Iraq. They rose to their responsibilities as a free nation.''

Bush also said he would fast-track a free-trade agreement with Australia, something Howard has been advocating.

Besides hosting Howard at the Texas ranch, an invitation the Bushes dole out to favoured allies, the White House announced yesterday the president will have dinner with Spanish Prime Minister Jose Maria Aznar at the White House tomorrow. Aznar was also a staunch ally of Bush on Iraq.

As well, Bush is tentatively scheduled to stop in Krakow on his way to Russia later this month to meet Polish President Aleksander Kwasniewski to thank him for Poland's contribution of 200 troops in Iraq.

On the other side of the ledger, Chr?tien has company.

Yesterday was Mexico's national holiday, and while Bush praised Mexican-Americans, he ignored that country's president, Vicente Fox.

Fox, once a close ally of the U.S. president, now is snubbed on the Cinco de Mayo, the holiday which marks the day Mexico defeated a French army in the town of Puebla in 1862.

The American dismissal of the French and German governments over Iraq is well known, but there are other subtle and not-so-subtle punishments for smaller nations that did not support the Iraqi invasion.

Chile, an opponent of the war, has seen a free-trade agreement with Washington suddenly hit a legislative wall.

Pending free-trade talks with New Zealand, another war opponent, have stalled.

No date has been set for a new visit to Canada by Bush, but U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell said last month that Bush hopes to come to Canada in the fall. Other observers have suggested the visit won't come until Chr?tien has left office and has been replaced, likely by former finance minister Paul Martin.
 
This was his style as Governor of Texas. He has and always be a "if you are not with us, you are against us" kind of guy.
 
It is heavy-handed and arrogant.

This is the worst administration ever in diplomacy.


During the debates Bush said America needed to be less arrogant.



Canada has soldiers in Afghanistan and is cooperating with the "War on Terror" Canada is our biggest trading partner.

There were countries that opposed the war in Bosnia, Clinton got done what needed to be done and moved on. He maintained relationships and built on common ground were there was agreement.

It seems like we have troglodytes running the country now.
 
As far as cancelling the visit to Canada, I believe it all goes back to the "you're for us or you're against us" mentality. Now that our mission has been partially accomplished in Iraq and GW is basking in his post-war glory, its payback time for all those countries that took the "against us" route. Nevermind that this attitude just perpetuates the negative stereotypes about the US...we need to teach these countries a lesson :rolleyes:

What good is possibly going to come from snubbing our neighbors and trying to punish a small country like Chile?

:down:
 
BVS

i edited out of my post :


This administration's attitude is that of an immature, spoiled child.



i did not want to go overboard :shrug:
 
There should be an IQ prerequisite before crossing the border.

Bush has the mentality of a 5 year old. The fact he flaunts it around with pride is all the more amusing. He's greatly entertaining for the rest of the world.
 
This is just plain stupid and arrogant behavior on the part of the people running my country. It's annoying and embarrassing.:madspit: :mad: :censored: :censored: :scream: :scream:
 
Canceling travel plans and the postponement of trade deals are things that happen all the time in any administration. They do not signify a major disruption in relations between countries.

I think Colin Powell has a higher IQ than me and most people posting here. But I don't think IQ jokes or assesments, and childern comments are accurate and certainly not objective.
 
Sting,

Maybe you did not read the article,
it was intentional and punitive.

Many people, including myself have high regard for Powell's abilities. It is a shame his dipomatic skills are not allowed to be praticed. The neo-cons have control of this presidency. Their behavior deserves to be judged for what it is.
 
Deep,

I read the article just fine. The writer decides to link things which in fact may not be happening simply because of the countries position on Iraq. His evidence is lacking.

The person the President listens to most on Foreign Policy and Iraq is Powell. The Neo Con stuff is the same as that "vast right wing conspiricy". Some media and liberals come up with interesting phrases but few of them hold any water.

"Their behavior deserves to be judged for what it is."

Ok, but I think some European countries are more deserving of these types of comments if one is to use them. They do very little comparitively on foreign policy/defense and whine about everything.
 
STING2 said:
I read the article just fine. The writer decides to link things which in fact may not be happening simply because of the countries position on Iraq. His evidence is lacking.

No, I'm sorry Sting, but speaking about the Canadian part of it, you're wrong there. I have been following this story since before the war started. It always hits the front pages here, but of course Canadian news rarely ever makes it south of the border.

The whole trip was planned, it was his official first state visit to Canada (can you believe he STILL hasn't been here after all this time??) and the minute Canada said they would only go to war with the UN, the US officials started telling us that he could not visit Canada while being a "wartime President" and dealing with an Iraq crisis. That I can swallow, (although I bet if we were in his coalition he would have made the effort) but there is NO crisis now, and no excuse for this rudeness. Lounging around Arkensas for lunch for the "heck" of it, is NOT being a "wartime President", it's a slap in the face, plain and simple.

The irony of ironies, is that American officials all through the war were saying that even though Canada was not officially in the war, we did more to help the US, especially in the area of border security checks than any of the other coalition countries (that weren't in the battlefield) put together! (Thanks Deep for the comment on Afghanistan, I don't think very many people in the US are aware that we have always been there and will continue to help with the war on terrorism).

According to the American Ambassador to Canada (who scolded us vigorously and publicly for not participating in the war...something an Ambassador isn't really supposed to do!) the two countries are starting to heal the rift (see below) but apparently the news hasn't hit Bush. So this is an acknowledgement of the rift, and proof that this is an official snubbing.

Canada offers to send police, legal advisers
U.S. ambassador hails contribution

Cellucci: Relations `back to normal'



ALLAN THOMPSON
OTTAWA BUREAU

OTTAWA?Canada's decision to contribute military aircraft, RCMP officers and legal experts to post-war Iraq signals that relations between Ottawa and Washington have pretty much returned to normal, U.S. Ambassador Paul Cellucci said yesterday.

"We think that's terrific,'' Cellucci said in an interview after Prime Minister Jean Chr?tien announced that Canada would contribute three CC-130 Hercules transport aircraft, police trainers, and corrections and legal officers to the U.S.-led reconstruction efforts in Iraq.

Chr?tien also offered to provide elements of the military's Disaster Assistance Response Team (DART), if needed.

Defence Minister John McCallum said the government is prepared to provide 150 DART personnel. "I think there is a shortage of running water and pure water in Iraq, so I hope we can put the two together because we definitely want to provide that service," he said.

Cellucci said the Canadian offer will help smooth relations damaged by Canada's refusal to join the U.S.-led war on Iraq.

"It's a very positive step by the Canadian government. I think that if things weren't already back to normal, we could pretty much say they are back to normal. I know we had some strains, but I think things are going quite well now,'' Cellucci said. While the U.S. had also requested that Canada contribute some troops to the post-war stabilization force in Iraq, Cellucci said the U.S. understands that Canada's military is stretched to the limit, particularly in light of the decision to send between 1,500 and 2,000 troops to Afghanistan this August.

"We understand that in terms of the military there has been a substantial commitment made to the stabilization force in Afghanistan this summer,'' Cellucci said. "And we know there is a significant number of Canadian military in the Persian Gulf. So we understand there really is a strain on the resources of the Canadian military.''

Chr?tien told reporters Canada would make the three Hercules aircraft ? already in the region as part of the war on terrorism ? available to transport humanitarian supplies to Iraq.

"We have offered to help them in policing and training judges. There are engineers that will be available to help restore water and electricity," Chr?tien said.

Canadian Alliance Leader Stephen Harper said he was glad to see the government finally doing something to support allied efforts in Iraq.

Canada has already pledged $106 million to short-term humanitarian relief efforts.

With files from Richard Brennan and Les Whittington
 
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STING2 said:
Deep,

I read the article just fine. The writer decides to link things which in fact may not be happening simply because of the countries position on Iraq. His evidence is lacking.

The person the President listens to most on Foreign Policy and Iraq is Powell. The Neo Con stuff is the same as that "vast right wing conspiricy". Some media and liberals come up with interesting phrases but few of them hold any water.

One could say the same for those elusive WMD's and Iraq-Bin Laden.

I don't think Dubyah listens to Powell at all. Otherwise the State Dept. would be running the post war Iraq. If you think the NeoCons aren't controlling the admin., your in need of an awakening.
 
On behalf of the government of my country, I would like to apologize to anyone here from the countries Bush is snubbing. Your countries don't deserve to be treated that way.

What an immature little man. :tsk:.

Bush, wake up and get some sense into your head.

And I hate his "if you're not with us, you're against us" mentality. God, it pisses me off. :mad:.

Angela
 
Mrs. Edge,

The article does not prove that the reason Bush has postponed his trip to Canada is because of Canada's position on the war.

Scarletwine,

"One could say the same for those elusive WMD's and Iraq-Bin Laden."

"I don't think Dubyah listens to Powell at all. Otherwise the State Dept. would be running the post war Iraq. If you think the NeoCons aren't controlling the admin., your in need of an awakening."

Let me quote Colin Powell for you: "It is not incumbent upon the United States to prove that Iraq has Weapons of Mass Destruction, it is incumbent upon Iraq to prove that it does not have weapons of mass destruction"

Before Powells speach to the UN in February, a reporter asked, "What do you have to say about Iraq's assertion that it does not have WMD?" Powell simply said "PROVE IT".

The 1991 Gulf War Ceace Fire Agreement requires Iraq to prove that it no longer has weapons of mass destruction. Iraq failed to satisfy this term of the Ceace Fire which made the use of military force this past March/April necessary.

Colin Powell is Bush's most trusted advisor. Cheney would come next. Cheney wanted to go into Iraq without even consulting the United Nations. He certainly had the legal pretext to do so as written in UN Security Council Resolution 678 which authorized the use of all means necessary to bring Iraq into compliance with all subsequent resolutions.

Despite this, Powell felt getting as much political support around the world for such an operation, despite already have the legal authorization to move, would be most beneficial to the US.

Bush agreed, and instead of invading Iraq as early as the fall 2002, Powell went though the UN, got another resolution that gave Iraq a last chance that if failed, and would reaffirm 678 and the authorization to use all means necessary to bring about compliance by Iraq.

It is Powell, rather than Cheney and Rumsfeld, that Bush has listened to the most on the issue of Iraq and Foreign Policy. Powell spent over 30 years on active duty in the US military achieve the rank of 4 star general. He is not someone that gets pushed around. If anything, the opposite is true.

So please, awaken to these facts.
 
STING2 said:
Mrs. Edge,

The article does not prove that the reason Bush has postponed his trip to Canada is because of Canada's position on the war.

Why are you so insistant on that? Why is it so hard for you to believe that he would do this? Actions speak louder than words. What other conclusions could we possibly draw, if they aren't denying it?

You'd think he'd at least have PRETENDED to be doing something important and war related rather than so blatantly filling in empty time.


I think it is incumbent on GW to prove that he is not coming to Canada because he has more important things to do, it is not incumbent on Canada to prove that he is snubbing us.
 
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Mrs. Edge,

Touch?!

C ya!

Marty

P.S. Is it allowed to use that word (Touch?)? It is French after all. :)
 
Oh Mylanta, I knew the resolutions would make their way into this thread.
 
OK Sting you just arent getting it.

Take a step back and put yourself into a Canadians shoes.

For years and years the President made his first trip after getting into office to Canada. We are our biggest trading partners we have the biggest free border and we are allies. When Bush came into power he didnt come to Canada he went to Mexico. That pissed some people off. Whatever we can handle that. But when you have been in office for what 2 and a half years or so and havent visited your biggest best neighbour, thats inexcusable. Especially when you have a trip planned and cancel it and go to a lunch with some bussinessmen.

I agree with Bush, Canada should have stood behind him but for a country that has given its troops to the war on terror and has seen no recongnition its digusting.
 
bonoman said:
I agree with Bush, Canada should have stood behind him but for a country that has given its troops to the war on terror and has seen no recongnition its digusting.

Exactly. No matter what your viewpoint vis a vis Canada's role in the war, either way this is apallingly bad form.

Also, something else bonoman didn't mention about recognition...a lot of Canadians are still upset that he mentioned almost every country in the world except Canada during his post 9-11 speech despite the ENORMOUS outpouring of affection, assistance, money and support Canada demonstrated. We felt completely invisible. His advisors/speech writers should have known better.

Also, there is a huge faction of Canadians that are like Bonoman and wanted to send troops to Iraq, with large demonstrations of support of the US in general, yet he doesn't seem to acknowledge that either. We can't win!!!

BTW, thank you to everyone who has written supportive things in this thread...it is much appreciated. :)
 
this is an article from the Orange County Register

my conservative Republican friends consider it a good newspaper
Wednesday, May 7, 2003

Bush rewarding supporters of the war against Iraq
Several of the conflict's allies get the president's attention, while critics do not.
By RON HUTCHESON
Knight Ridder Newspapers

WASHINGTON ? It's payback time at the White House, and countries around the world are reaping the benefits or paying the price for their stand on the war with Iraq.

The door to the Oval Office is wide open for foreign leaders who backed the war effort led by President George W. Bush, but critics would be lucky to find a spot with Barney, the presidential dog.

The pattern fits Bush's longstanding system of rewarding friends and punishing enemies, but critics say it is only adding to anti-American sentiment abroad, which is already substantial.

"It's petty, and it puts personal animus ahead of the national interest. You lose the high ground when you make it personal," said Lee Feinstein, a State Department official under President Clinton who is now at the Council on Foreign Relations.

In the latest example, Bush signed a free-trade deal with war ally Singapore on Tuesday, while a similar agreement with opponent Chile is stalled.

Today, Bush was to welcome Spanish Prime Minister Jose Maria Aznar. On Thursday, he meets with the foreign ministers of Bulgaria, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Romania, Slovakia and Slovenia - all allies. He also will make time for Sheik Hamad bin Khalifa al-Thani of Qatar, which hosted the U.S. military command during the war, and Danish Prime Minister Anders Fogh Rasmussen, who also endorsed the war.

Opponents shouldn't expect invitations anytime soon.

Bush halted a planned state visit with Canadian Prime Minister Jean Chretien on Monday, citing a busy schedule; Chretien opposed the war. Instead, Bush spent the weekend at his Texas ranch with Australian Prime Minister John Howard, a war backer, and devoted Monday to touting tax cuts in Arkansas.

Mexican President Vicente Fox is also on the outs. Bush's annual Cinco de Mayo message on Monday - the holiday celebrates a Mexican victory over French invaders in 1862 - failed to mention U.S. ties to Mexico, but praised "the many Mexican-Americans serving in our Armed Forces who are working to bring freedom and justice to oppressed people."

In contrast, last year's statement hailed the "strong, vibrant relationship" between the countries. Two years ago, Bush marked the holiday by praising Fox as "a fine man, a man of powerful ideas and a great vision for his country."

The strained ties have derailed plans to liberalize U.S. immigration laws, a Fox priority that was already in doubt because of security concerns raised by the Sept. 11 attacks.

No one ranks lower on the list than President Jacques Chirac of France, which led war opponents at the United Nations and NATO.

Still, there are signs that the freeze will not last forever. Bush says he will attend next month's G-8 summit in France.
 
Mrs. Edge,

If you and the Canadian people are that desperate to have Bush in your country, then I agree he should get his ass up there. But Canada's level of support for US policy around the world has not been to the level of some other countries. I just find it funny that Canada is so pissed off that, a man that most of them write off as an immuture idiot, has not come to their country yet. The depression and anxiety must be overwhelming regardless of the tradition of state visits in the past.
 
Sting, I'm having a hard time trying to decide whether you are being serious or not, and therefore whether I should be provoked by this comment or not. But I will give you the benefit of the doubt.

There is a HUGE difference between being DESPERATE to have him here and wanting to be treated with BASIC RESPECT!!! This is just UNPROFESSIONAL for want of a better word. You would think now more than ever that the US would want Canada on their team, and to start building a more positive image around the world....but this administration doesn't care because they don't have to care. If they don't like something they make your life miserable. Why is this so puzzling to understand? You know, I bet even if we did send troops to Iraq we STILL wouldn't get any credit.

Well, I for one agree with you on one thing (and I do not by any means speak for all Canadians), I think Bush is an arrogant wanker, that is utterly unsuitable to run as important and wonderful a country as the USA. The only good thing he has done that I agree with is the AIDS funding, but even that is full of strings attached. I think the US deserves so much better.

I have no idea therefore why it annoys me so much that he's not coming here, I guess I just worry about the relations between our countries. Things could be so much better, but over this ridiculous petty nonsense, they are going right down hill and I think that's a huge waste.
 
STING2 said:
Mrs. Edge,

If you and the Canadian people are that desperate to have Bush in your country, then I agree he should get his ass up there. But Canada's level of support for US policy around the world has not been to the level of some other countries. I just find it funny that Canada is so pissed off that, a man that most of them write off as an immuture idiot, has not come to their country yet. The depression and anxiety must be overwhelming regardless of the tradition of state visits in the past.

I cant believe I wrote this huge intelligent post and went to post and I lost the entire thing.....anyway...the gist of my comment is that I found your comment to imply that Cdns are snivelling, insignificant little flick..ack..makes me angry...

comments like that insight hatred and riots...comments we dont need...

why cant countries/people just accept support of any kind...why does it need to be measured..why cant it just be accepted...

I wrote alot more.....but it has escaped me at the moment...but what doesnt escape me is the fact that it irked me...and I found it most condescending....

:madspit: :madspit: :madspit: ..I know juvenile..but oh well...
 
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