Canada, Mexico, many other countries being snubbed/punished post Iraq by Bush & Co. - Page 4 - U2 Feedback

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Old 05-10-2003, 11:10 AM   #46
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neighbours on a collision course

this is a much more complex issue than it appears on the surface.

it is true that canada was their to support the u.s. following 9/11, as the entire world seemingly was. but within our special geographic and historical place, we offered something extra.

we supported the afghan incursion in search of al-quaeda, the taliban and bin-laden. there was some dissension of the concept of attacking a nation for a relative handful of individuals but that was quickly quashed and canadian's were there, some of them for the worse but that comes later.

in spite of all this there was a growing perception that canada and the u.s. were growing further apart. well the truth is we are.

president bush is on the right, much more conservative than canadian's prefer. his continual employment of 'us-against-them'ism certainly doesn't aid the situation.

canada is under rule of a prime minister who is conversely as left as bush is right and presently, as he nears his announced retirement, hell bent on leaving a legacy of canadian values and social successes (for those who don't know, such values don't involve military objectives, far from it in fact). by the same token that bush shouldn't be squaring off with those who don't support all of his military incursions, chretien should be focusing on his own diplomatic skills by controlling the ministers whom he employs. as a small parade of cabinet ministers and backbenchers openly and publicly criticized president bush, chretien stood aside. what he should have done is come down hard on the first one (i believe it was environment minister herb dhaliwal but it might have been back bencher and otherwise nobody from mississauga carolyn parrish) by canning their ass. he didn't, and the white house took note-at least ari fleisher stated they had.

throw in an american ambassador to canada, paul celluci (who is actually a really nice guy), who is all too willing to let canada know what it should be doing and when, some softwood lumber disputes, suggestions canada should give the u.s. access to valuable water, canada's slow but steady lean towards the decriminalization of marijuana, the accidental but altogether neglectful bombing of canadian soldiers aiding in the american bin-laden hunt, a pre-determined race for the reigning and unstoppable canadian leadership party that are the liberals (the candidates, one of whom is a shoe in to win and has been for several years, have sparred over how they would have handled iraq and the consequent american relationship) and years of candians feeling as though they are constantly slighted by their larger, richer neighbours.

and that is all within the past year or two.

no bush shouldn't have cancelled the visit the way he did. but i think canadian's made such an action predictable by their own actions. there was poor diplomacy and management on both sides.

fear not though-the relationship will begin to be mended in just months time when paul martin (finally) becomes prime minister of canada.martin is much more of a right leaning liberal than chretien ever was or will be. he has already pledged to make our national relationship with the u.s. and the personal one between sussex and the white house an objective of his early days in office next february, 2004. should martin somehow lose the leadership race (an unlikely scenario given the groundwork he has been laying for years) the only other candidate with a chance, john manley is largely similar in his ideals, especially his support for america (that is right canadians, sheila copps will not be the next prime minister).

im the candyman. and the candyman is back.
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Old 05-10-2003, 01:51 PM   #47
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Originally posted by melon

Bush needs his friends to regularly bribe him, otherwise he forgets about them--and then you aren't "with him." Meaning that you are "against him." Meaning that everyone is out to get him. But hey...what an excuse to embroil the U.S. into perpetual conflict, eh? Then he can find another excuse to take a military jet onto an aircraft carrier and put on another pilot costume. After all, it's FUN to play dress-up. He even got to dress-up and pretend to be the President of the United States the other day...

Heh, yeah, exactly.


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Old 05-10-2003, 04:06 PM   #48
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"Well we dont have 50000 troops. Sorry."

"You are not critizing my gov't so much as the people of my country, me or anyone that lives here. Because we are not at your beck and call we get punnished?"

Canada should have a military of 140,000!

I was not critical of the Canadian people. I simply suggested that most don't care or don't want Bush to visit because of their political views or because they consider the State Visit as being really for symbolic reasons and there for does not mean much to them.

"We are huge parteners and help eachother to a huge degree. That is the only thing that should matter. Not if we didnt send 50000 troops to fight a war. By your standards the only nation that should be visited is the UK. We support the US in many different ways that the UK cannot support you in."

This war was extremely important to global security and those that fought along side the USA do deserve special recognition.

Just because the President of the USA did not visit Canada does not mean the US government and Canadian government are not working with each other. I don't think anyone cancelled their travel plans to Canada or to the USA. Business continues across the border everyday. Some might say the USA is apart of Canada. Others might say Canada is apart of the USA. Either way, a dispute about a single State Visit is not going to get in the way.
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Old 05-10-2003, 04:12 PM   #49
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"It's down to 65% this week. That's a 12 point drop from his high of 77%. Bush senior had a 90 something % and looked what happened to him. This payment to the rich he's making will finish him off."

Oh my, its all over now. Republicans should just give the election to Lieberman or Kerry. Not bad choices for the democrats two top candidates. Both supported Bush on Iraq and Lieberman is a big supporter of Israel.
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Old 05-11-2003, 10:31 PM   #50
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Originally posted by STING2
I don't think anyone cancelled their travel plans to Canada or to the USA. Business continues across the border everyday. Some might say the USA is apart of Canada. Others might say Canada is apart of the USA.
Now that I have had a moment to take some deep breaths and count to 10......I don't think you even realise it, and would hope you meant it as an offhand compliment, but this is probably singlehandedly the most arrogant statement you have yet made. Yes, we are similar in many ways, (many of those by default as Canadian culture is so overwhelmed by US culture, TV, movies, food etc.) and we are part of the same team as friends and allies, but we are proud of our OWN identity and values.

I doubt any Americans would say they are part of Canada, and I can 100% guarantee you that you will never find ONE SINGLE SOLITARY Canadian that thinks Canada is a part of the USA. For example, try telling the Irish (at least the southern half anyway) that they are part of England and see how well THAT goes over.

This is the same phoneball excuse the Americans gave as to why we weren't mentioned in any of the post 9-11 speeches. Because we are the same as the US. Well we are NOT.

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