Can God be "the bigger person" when it comes to non-believers? - Page 5 - U2 Feedback

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Old 11-18-2004, 03:20 PM   #61
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Isn’t free will essentially a myth since our choices are arguably based on social/cultural experiences, hormones, a deity etc? I mean there must be a reason people make different choices.
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Old 11-18-2004, 03:21 PM   #62
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Calvin believed in predestination. He believed that God created us and essentially picked which of us would follow him and which wouldn't. (Simplified of course)
This seems to eliminate choice. It is far beyond me to figure out how you can hold someone responsible if they didn't have a choice.
As I understand this balance, we make the choice, but God (in His omniscience) knows who will make the choice.
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Old 11-18-2004, 03:26 PM   #63
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Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
After trying to live my life as an atheist for a year, I realized how empty I was without him.
I think it's basically pointless to try and live your life as an atheist if you're a believer and vice versa. That's why I don’t get the ‘choosing to accept Jesus or the Bible’ story. You either believe or you don’t, you don’t really have any control over it.
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Old 11-18-2004, 03:27 PM   #64
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That's fine, Dr. Teeth. I can understand your curiosity. I am a Christian and am very proud of it, but honestly, I have NO CLUE what happens when people die and we won't know until we're, well, dead.
My sentiments exactly. God decides this stuff, not me. I'm proud to be a Christian, but I'm in no position to judge what is going to happen to people who don't share my views, and I don't worry about it. It's beyond my control, and I don't like to worry about things that are beyond my control. I'll stick to the stuff I can control, thank you very much.
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Old 11-18-2004, 03:27 PM   #65
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In that case, we can disassemble and discard the entire Gospel, creating God in our own image - all in the name of scholarship.
Thank you for telling the truth. God should be bigger than us, and he IS, and we should not create him in our own image, regardless of what the world wants.
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Old 11-18-2004, 03:36 PM   #66
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I think it's basically pointless to try and live your life as an atheist if you're a believer and vice versa. That's why I don’t get the ‘choosing to accept Jesus or the Bible’ story. You either believe or you don’t, you don’t really have any control over it.
I was going through a serious struggle, and I was in middle school at the time. I was hanging around the wrong crowd. Now that I accept the gospel for life, I believe in God, regardless of what our society will become.
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Old 11-18-2004, 03:38 PM   #67
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Originally posted by blueyedpoet
Ah, we get to go into the free will versus determinism!
I'm actually taking a class right now at UCLA as a philosophy student on this very topic. That doesn't mean I have any answers of course. It just means I'm knee deep in material with people thinking they do. Calvin believed in predestination. He believed that God created us and essentially picked which of us would follow him and which wouldn't. (Simplified of course)
This seems to eliminate choice. It is far beyond me to figure out how you can hold someone responsible if they didn't have a choice.
Think of it this way: You are running on time to a friend's house. You come to a stop. There is a quick path to your friend's house and a long path. The shorter path is closed off. You have to take the longer route. You are late to your friends. Is your friend going to be mad at you for being late once he knows you had to take the long route?
ah...but once again, i'm not arguing from a calvinist perspective, i am a lutheran. calvin believed in double predestination...that is that some people were preordained to heaven, and others to hell. I don't agree with this.

Christ was sent for the salvation of the whole world. all that is required to have life in Christ is a belief in Him. this belief comes from the Holy Spirit. Faith is something that we do not work ourselves. The ONLY choice we have is to turn away from God.

so to take your analogy...there are indeed two paths. the "long" path is wide, and attractive, it looks like the easy way to get there. the "short" path is narrow, so narrow in fact that people, on their own, don't even recognize that it's there, and no, it is not blocked off. they can only see the shorter path when it is shown to them by the holy spirit, and are led by him every step of the way. however, on this path, you can choose not to take it, or to turn from it.

so...if i reject the path, or turn from it, and am "late" as a result, i think that it would be just to be held accountable for my lateness.
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Old 11-18-2004, 03:38 PM   #68
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The Gospel is all about egos and wills. It's about leaving your ego, your sense of superiority behind, and presenting yourself to humans, and to God, egoless.
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Old 11-18-2004, 03:38 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally posted by DrTeeth


I think it's basically pointless to try and live your life as an atheist if you're a believer and vice versa. That's why I don’t get the ‘choosing to accept Jesus or the Bible’ story. You either believe or you don’t, you don’t really have any control over it.
Are you suggesting it is genetic?
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Old 11-18-2004, 03:39 PM   #70
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Originally posted by verte76
My sentiments exactly. God decides this stuff, not me. I'm proud to be a Christian, but I'm in no position to judge what is going to happen to people who don't share my views, and I don't worry about it. It's beyond my control, and I don't like to worry about things that are beyond my control. I'll stick to the stuff I can control, thank you very much.
If you had the cure to a disease, would you share it?
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Old 11-18-2004, 03:43 PM   #71
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Originally posted by DrTeeth


I think it's basically pointless to try and live your life as an atheist if you're a believer and vice versa. That's why I don’t get the ‘choosing to accept Jesus or the Bible’ story. You either believe or you don’t, you don’t really have any control over it.

That's my problem, if you don't choose how can you be responsible? Please people think about it, don't give me a sunday school answer. If God already knows everything that is going to happen then the future has all been written out. If the future is all written out you have no choice but to do what it is you are going to do. How can we then be held responsible?
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Old 11-18-2004, 03:46 PM   #72
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How can we then be held responsible? [/B]
see my post above...
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Old 11-18-2004, 03:48 PM   #73
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Originally posted by blueyedpoet
That's my problem, if you don't choose how can you be responsible? Please people think about it, don't give me a sunday school answer. If God already knows everything that is going to happen then the future has all been written out. If the future is all written out you have no choice but to do what it is you are going to do. How can we then be held responsible?
The logic does not flow here. God's omnisciences does not translate into our inability to choose our actions.

If I leave a plate of chocolate chip cookies out on the counter, I know my son will walk by and take one. But he still had the choice to take a cookie.
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Old 11-18-2004, 03:51 PM   #74
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my dad wrote a book on john calvin
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Old 11-18-2004, 03:52 PM   #75
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Personally, I'm not much of a Calvin-esque. I believe that my actions are my fault, and God is not responsible for every screw up I choose. I believe Martin Luther King is one of God's chosen people, in a form that he led a revolution that needed to be done, and in his name, too. The problem I have with preaching Calvinism is that some people might think, "Well I'm screwed, so I might as well start breaking more commandments." I don't know.

All I know is that Calvin wasn't Jesus.
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