Can God be "the bigger person" when it comes to non-believers? - Page 4 - U2 Feedback

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Old 11-18-2004, 02:23 PM   #46
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I guess we would have to open a discussion of what constitutes a Christian and the belief set that is indisputable. [/B]
Possibly, but you will never find a middle ground here or a consensus. Christianity as a religion is far to split.
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Old 11-18-2004, 02:23 PM   #47
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Every sect and every denomination claims to only be taking what God's word tells them. I love this discussion by the way....it's nice to have something other than politics in here.
Someone wrote earlier that this kind of discussion humanizes God which makes it harder to believe in God. I think this is something very important. God can't be "the bigger person" because he isn't a person. Nevertheless consider this form of logic. What does it take for one person to be "the bigger person"?
I'm sure in the end most of us would agree that love is the requirment for grace and forgiveness. God - or whatever word you like best for the Spirit - is often referred to as Love in many different belief systems as Love. So, we can deduce that God embodies what it means to be "the bigger person."
I also wonder, do we spend too much time worrying about heaven and hell here on earth instead of living a life of heaven now?
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Old 11-18-2004, 02:26 PM   #48
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Christianity as a religion is far to split.
Agreed. Possibly to the point where some of it is no longer Christianity.
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Old 11-18-2004, 02:38 PM   #49
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I have a question for some people...how does one accept Jesus? if an action that i perform is responsible for my salvation, doesn't that mean that I have the power to save my own soul, and that I don't need Christ? this is the whole "decision theology" that I find a little backwards, but nonetheless, i would like to be educated on the matter...
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Old 11-18-2004, 02:38 PM   #50
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Why it matters is that if God is supposed to be perfect and all loving, you'd think he could put asside his ego and be willing to forgive and accept ALL the people he created and not pick and choose. Because there are some NON believers who don't believe for a good reason, but that doesn't make them less deserving of entry than a "sinning" believer imo.
But are you willing to put aside your ego and believe?
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Old 11-18-2004, 02:39 PM   #51
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Everyone one will get their chance to know who God is, be it from age 9 or on their deathbead, or even after. It's then your decision to accept or reject.
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Old 11-18-2004, 02:40 PM   #52
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Originally posted by shrmn8rpoptart
I have a question for some people...how does one accept Jesus? if an action that i perform is responsible for my salvation, doesn't that mean that I have the power to save my own soul, and that I don't need Christ? this is the whole "decision theology" that I find a little backwards, but nonetheless, i would like to be educated on the matter...
The extent of your "power" is to accept that you are a sinner, believe that Christ died on the cross for you and choose to believe and follow Him. Salvation is the gift. All you have to do is accept it. Thus, you cannot do it without Christ because He essentially is the gift.
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Old 11-18-2004, 02:47 PM   #53
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isn't faith a gift from the Holy Spirit as well though? It seems like if I can accept Christ on my own, there is no room for the HS. From what I understand, Faith is given through the Word and through Baptism, and it is nourished through communion.

It has been explained to me that we are all Lazerus...that is we are all dead in sin, yet we are given life again through Christ. But Lazerus did not choose to live again, his resurrection was done completely without him. However, once he became alive again, he still had the power to commit suicide. So we are dead in sin, but are resurrected through Christ without any effort on our part. The only "choice" that we can make is to turn away from God.
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Old 11-18-2004, 02:52 PM   #54
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It has been explained to me that we are all Lazerus...that is we are all dead in sin, yet we are given life again through Christ. But Lazerus did not choose to live again, his resurrection was done completely without him. However, once he became alive again, he still had the power to commit suicide. So we are dead in sin, but are resurrected through Christ without any effort on our part. The only "choice" that we can make is to turn away from God.
Thanks to John Calvin.

Presbyterian? Edge is Presbyterian ya know.
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Old 11-18-2004, 02:54 PM   #55
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actually that's not a calvinist view...it's lutheran
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Old 11-18-2004, 02:57 PM   #56
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If we take the Calvin line of logic we arrive at a very dangerous place: none of us are morally responsible.
If we do not have choice (real choice) then it is to be said that we are without free will. And, without free will it is impossible to be held responsible for our will. I can explain this in greater detail if anyone wants.
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Old 11-18-2004, 03:02 PM   #57
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Originally posted by blueyedpoet
If we take the Calvin line of logic we arrive at a very dangerous place: none of us are morally responsible.
If we do not have choice (real choice) then it is to be said that we are without free will. And, without free will it is impossible to be held responsible for our will. I can explain this in greater detail if anyone wants.
you can explain further...but i would recommend reading "the bondage of the will" by luther. he explains that we are in bondage to sin, and will always choose death over life (in the eternal sense). so we choose to sin, and choose to turn away from God, therefore, we are responsible for our sin, and deserve to be justly punnished for it.
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Old 11-18-2004, 03:11 PM   #58
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Ah, we get to go into the free will versus determinism!
I'm actually taking a class right now at UCLA as a philosophy student on this very topic. That doesn't mean I have any answers of course. It just means I'm knee deep in material with people thinking they do. Calvin believed in predestination. He believed that God created us and essentially picked which of us would follow him and which wouldn't. (Simplified of course)
This seems to eliminate choice. It is far beyond me to figure out how you can hold someone responsible if they didn't have a choice.
Think of it this way: You are running on time to a friend's house. You come to a stop. There is a quick path to your friend's house and a long path. The shorter path is closed off. You have to take the longer route. You are late to your friends. Is your friend going to be mad at you for being late once he knows you had to take the long route?
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Old 11-18-2004, 03:14 PM   #59
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nbcrusader you're doing a greaet job contributing to this thread.
Keep up the good work.
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Old 11-18-2004, 03:20 PM   #60
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ive never felt a 'need' for God. what does that mean for me?
After trying to live my life as an atheist for a year, I realized how empty I was without him. Without God, the world is dark. With God, you have faith in what the world may find impossible - eternal life. I also believe that God created man, rather than the other way around. In return for this, I believe that we owe ourselves to God rather than this miserable world. The world is so dark, so far from God to understand the meaning of life. The meaning of life for me is unconditional forgiveness, unconditional love, and unconditional truth.
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