Can God be "the bigger person" when it comes to non-believers? - Page 15 - U2 Feedback

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Old 11-19-2004, 02:58 PM   #211
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oh, and i was going back and reading some old posts...here's another thought: searching for the truth is great, but we have to be willing to accept that the truth may not be what we had in mind. and if this turns out to be the case (and it almost certainly will) if what you want is truth, you must be willing to put aside your own desires.
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Old 11-19-2004, 02:59 PM   #212
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Originally posted by Irvine511
how could he undestand human pain and suffering if he lived a perfect, flawless life? wouldn't the story be more compelling, more amazing, if the real Christ were closer to Scorsese's version than these dew-eyed, Anglo, sanitized historical reimaginings that we're so sentimental about?
Jesus was mocked, rejected, tortured and killed. He experienced other forms of suffering and sadness as well. He didn't have to sin to go through these experiences.

Nothing sanitized or sentimental in the life of Jesus.
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Old 11-19-2004, 03:01 PM   #213
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Originally posted by shrmn8rpoptart
oh, and i was going back and reading some old posts...here's another thought: searching for the truth is great, but we have to be willing to accept that the truth may not be what we had in mind. and if this turns out to be the case (and it almost certainly will) if what you want is truth, you must be willing to put aside your own desires.
that's actually quite poignant for myself. i feel as though i experienced that exact situation two years ago. i concluded that the truth does not rest in christianity and i put aside my own desire for having what i believed for my whole life be the truth and set out on a new journey.

it was hard. it was sad. it was liberating.
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Old 11-19-2004, 03:02 PM   #214
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i wonder if you know how many church services i attended in the first 19 years of my life. more than i care to count. been there, done that.

faith in which/who's god?

ps. i think some of you misunderstood my post on prayer. i was not suggesting i am in need of a genie, in fact the genie mentality is what bothers me most about prayer. i've just come to the conclusion that god answers no prayers. and again, i am not bitter about that in the least.
of course you will never be able to acknowledge that God answers prayers, because if things don't turn out they way that you wanted them, then God didn't answer your prayer, and if on the other hand, things do go you way, you find a reason why God wasn't a part of that.

you have closed your mind off to the efficacy of prayer, and no matter what God works in your life, you seem determined to turn a blind eye to it.

(also remember that it is well within God's power to say 'no')
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Old 11-19-2004, 03:05 PM   #215
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so if i ask god, it'll just tell me? where's the faith in that?

i prayed consciously for years and objectively, i don't think a single one was answered directly by god. here and there what i hoped for turned out in that way but there are always reasonable explanations for such things. that is not to say that i am bitter, i just don't think god answers prayers at all. i guess it just makes people feel better thinking they have this open communication with a deity - someone who is always there to talk to and who loves us infinitely. again, not to deny either possibility - but there is no proof of it. personally i think god is out there and cares in some abstract form about what it has created but i simply don't believe in two way communication - the deity has already given us everything we need.
God does answer prayer, but I've come to realize that prayer is answered in a way that changes us instead of changing God.

If the prayer is to believe and understand, I believe God will honor such a prayer.

Quote:
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i see elsewhere that now the mysterious trinity has been evoked. good luck with that discussion irvine - no amount of reason will help you. there is no explaning the holy trinity. just accept the mystery of god and follow along. also, don't pay attention to the 'pagan' trinities on which the christian example is modeled.
I've heard it said that the person who could completely explain the Trinity would be the 4th member.
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Old 11-19-2004, 03:09 PM   #216
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I went to church when I was younger, even chose to get baptized when I was in my teens and now at the tender age of 26 I'm more skeptical than ever. I've had my share of pastors and I just don't buy it.
I think we all have skepticism at some point in our lives. But you can find comfort in the promise of Zechariah 1:3

"Therefore tell the people: This is what the LORD Almighty says: 'Return to me,' declares the LORD Almighty, 'and I will return to you,' says the LORD Almighty."

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Old 11-19-2004, 03:18 PM   #217
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shoot, nbcrusader, why don't you just become a pastor? you're good at this.
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Old 11-19-2004, 03:23 PM   #218
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Originally posted by nbcrusader


I think we all have skepticism at some point in our lives. But you can find comfort in the promise of Zechariah 1:3

"Therefore tell the people: This is what the LORD Almighty says: 'Return to me,' declares the LORD Almighty, 'and I will return to you,' says the LORD Almighty."

comfort...quiet...follow...............
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Old 11-19-2004, 03:24 PM   #219
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shoot, nbcrusader, why don't you just become a pastor? you're good at this.
I've left that open as an option.
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Old 11-19-2004, 04:04 PM   #220
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nbcrusader ... you are perhaps the most civil person on here, and you certainly know a lot about the Bible. while i disagree with you most of the time, i respect your posts a great deal and find them extremely helpful to me.

however, the way you (effortlessly, and impressively) reference the bible it is, i think, indicative of exactly my problems with Christianity in the narrow sense, and religion in the broad sense. for every question, you've got a neatly contained answer that, to me, has little to no relevance on my life or my experience. it's a self-referential, self-justified, entirely closed system. you prove scripture with scripture. got doubts about Scripture? Scripture has an answer. God not answering your prayers? you'll change and that will answer your prayers.

it's very North Korean sounding -- like "he leads because he is great, and he is great because he leads." my mind simply cannot accept such circular logic, and this is precisely why i can intellectually and rationally explore the idea of God, but cannot accept religion, as it is commonly practiced and understood, into my life.
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Old 11-19-2004, 04:11 PM   #221
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Originally posted by Irvine511
nbcrusader ... you are perhaps the most civil person on here, and you certainly know a lot about the Bible. while i disagree with you most of the time, i respect your posts a great deal and find them extremely helpful to me.

however, the way you (effortlessly, and impressively) reference the bible it is, i think, indicative of exactly my problems with Christianity in the narrow sense, and religion in the broad sense. for every question, you've got a neatly contained answer that, to me, has little to no relevance on my life or my experience. it's a self-referential, self-justified, entirely closed system. you prove scripture with scripture. got doubts about Scripture? Scripture has an answer. God not answering your prayers? you'll change and that will answer your prayers.

it's very North Korean sounding -- like "he leads because he is great, and he is great because he leads." my mind simply cannot accept such circular logic, and this is precisely why i can intellectually and rationally explore the idea of God, but cannot accept religion, as it is commonly practiced and understood, into my life.
Fair enough.

I try to keep my answers based on Scripture instead of my own throughts and beliefs because the later will change - over time, based on my mood, or even based on how the question is posed to me.

I should sharpen up on my apologetics. Then I could better appeal to the type of answers you are looking for.
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Old 11-19-2004, 04:30 PM   #222
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Originally posted by Dreadsox
I would say that with all this looking for the truth....stop it.

Start answering GOD'S call to your heart. Start with something basic, like the Sermon on the Mount. Live and walk the walk of someone who loves your neighbor.

Don't be on the sidelines waiting for the truth to hit you like an anvil. GODS grace is BIGGER than any DOCTRINE or TRUTH that we choose to believe or not believe, the message and living the message is more important than believing in a DOCTRINE.
Dreadsox! You took the words out of my mouth. Living and walking the walk of someone who loves thy neighbor is my #1 priority as a Christian. As you search to walk the walk, your faith becomes stronger. To me, serving is what it is all about.

Good luck at the conference this weekend!
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Old 11-19-2004, 04:55 PM   #223
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I feel like God does answer my prayers. Just yesterday I woke up healed from a really painful illness......I was quite shocked, I expected to have the illness for weeks. I recently made a pilgrimage and am planning other pilgrimages. It means alot to me, these are very emotional experiences.
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Old 11-19-2004, 05:24 PM   #224
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Originally posted by nbcrusader
I should sharpen up on my apologetics.
NB, if you're serious about that, I've got some great books to recommend to get you started.
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Old 11-19-2004, 05:50 PM   #225
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NB, if you're serious about that, I've got some great books to recommend to get you started.
Always interested in new books

email me if you please: nbcrusader@gmail.com

Thanks!!
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