Can God be "the bigger person" when it comes to non-believers? - Page 13 - U2 Feedback

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Old 11-19-2004, 12:10 PM   #181
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Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
Thank you for telling the truth. God should be bigger than us, and he IS, and we should not create him in our own image, regardless of what the world wants.
don't we create him in our own image anyway, though?

Interpretations of the Bible and guidelines of the Church (any church) change over time to meet current societal changes. It used to be that women were inferior, because the Bible said so. Africans were meant to be slaves, because the Bible said so (many people used the Bible to back owning slaves). Now, the times have changed, and haven't our interpretations? In changing our Biblical interpretations, do we not change our idea of what God wants, and thus making him over again?
....that's the sociological take on it, at least. Discuss.

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Any god worth it's salt would be able to create many belief systems for the various peoples of the world...each of them valid ways to heaven (or whatever). In fact, I think the real way ito heaven (if it even exists) is to live the best life possible...essentially, just doing the best you can. And I think everyone, not just Christians (or people of any other faith) is eligible.

It seems to me that the ideas of God that various peoples have is the best way for them to worship... not necessarily the only way, but the way that most fits their way of life. It goes back to the whole society makes God in its own image thing. I would not ever try and tell someone that my way is the "right" way. It's right for me. I would love to have the confidence many of you have in your beliefs.

Next question: Someone was talking about how, before Jesus, people got into heaven based on their belief in God. Is this the Hebrew God? What about, say, peoples with a whole pantheon of spirits that haven't heard of God?
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Old 11-19-2004, 12:23 PM   #182
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Quote:
Next question: Someone was talking about how, before Jesus, people got into heaven based on their belief in God. Is this the Hebrew God? What about, say, peoples with a whole pantheon of spirits that haven't heard of God?
Here is an interesting attribute of God I'd like to bring up:

GOD IS FAIR.

Yes, and we do not completely understand how far his fairness goes. I can't tell you exactly how he decides who will be with him on the new earth (did you guys get that, I didn't say heaven).

But I do know that he laid out some requirements through the Word, and through Jesus. And that overall, you should consider the process of understanding these requirements, through reading, talking with others, praying, and just experiencing the hardships and joys of life, that you are refined into something pleasing to God, and closer to God, so you'll have a love for God when you are with him on the new earth.

The one thing that seems pretty clear, as NB point out, is that if you reject God because of ego, or because you think you know better, or because you obviously are superior to all those red state lemmings (sorry had to do it), and you walk away from God, then guess what, being with Him on the new earth, well, wouldn't exactly be the place for you, especially for eternity.

So are you going to be eternally tortued because of this? Some Christians think that, but many think that you'll just die, and be seperated from God. So, in that case, if you don't believe in him anyway, you're not missing out, because most people that don't believe in God, just believe that when they die it's over.

So back to the original question. God is fair. Some people have a sense of God through looking at creation around them, and have a relationship without ever knowing the Gospel and the sacrifice of Jesus. Others that die young, or reject the Gospel because of the way it was presented to them (e.g., a pedophiliac priest), God understands this and will be fair.

But for those that have had the opportunity laid out in front of them, know the Gospel, and reject it, then there is no place for them to be with God.

Heaven is not a reward, it's chance for those who know God, to be with him on a new earth. I don't know what it's going to be like, but as a believer, one who worships God for his wonderful attributes, I look forward to being with him.

Mark
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Old 11-19-2004, 01:42 PM   #183
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here's what i think my problem is: it's not the message, but the messangers.

i admire faith, but to assert faith as fact without acknowledging the very human choice to belive, to have faith, is a bit disconcerting. without acknowledging any doubt or any struggles you -- here, the "believers" -- have had while on your road to faith, it sounds like you're blindly repeating what someone else has told you. i feel certain that all believers on this list have thought long and hard about these things, i just wish it were reflected more when they actually write about faith. the more doubts you express about your faith, the more likely i am to take what you say about your faith seriously.

these declarative statements: "Heaven is not a reward, it's chance for those who know God, to be with him on a new earth" make me far more skeptical of the message because of the certainty of the messanger. doubt and struggle are evidence of an active mind, in my opinion.
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Old 11-19-2004, 01:46 PM   #184
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God is always the bigger person because of GRACE.

The theme throughout the old and the new is that GOD'S grace has always been present.

I think that through GOD'S grace, all stand a chance to be saved.

I also think many denominations and religions believe that they have cornered the market on salvation. Fortunately for the world, there is GRACE.

Looking at some of the characters in the bible, I see that GOD sometime chooses people that you or I might judge to be less than perfect. Abram was CHOSEN and GOD extended his GRACE towards Abraham with all of his flaws.

Thank goodness for GRACE, because of it.....I have a chance and I am a believer.
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Old 11-19-2004, 01:50 PM   #185
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Re: Can God be "the bigger person" when it comes to non-believers?

Quote:
Originally posted by Mrs. Edge

The other day I was watching ER. In it, there was a guy who was dying (played by Ray Liotta), and Dr. Kovach (sp?) was talking to him. The guy said "I have never been a believer, and I guess that's going to bite me in the ass now, huh?" to which the Dr. replied, "I think God will get over it."
I love this dialog......
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Old 11-19-2004, 01:53 PM   #186
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geez, ya wait until it's 1:44 pm your local time and five pages of bantering has occured. as much as i'd still like to discuss the issue of determinism, free will, and morality, think i need to interject something else.
There are a lot of skeptics in this thread and there are a lot of christians. My belief is that God is something so far beyond human qualities. God doesn't love; God is love. God doesn't care; God is care.
To my fellow skeptics (and i'm sure i haven't sounded like much of one thus far in this reply) I think if God were the type to talk God would be very thrilled with your line of questioning. I realize this statement sounds like I'm attributing human characteristics to God, cause well it is. Still, I guess i'm just trying to say that asking questions, being curious, demanding more than sunday school answers, are all "holy" (if we use judeo-christian language). Seek, jesus did say.
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Old 11-19-2004, 01:58 PM   #187
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i think god would prefer a struggling skeptic than a blind believer.

but there i go projecting human qualities unto the infinite ...
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Old 11-19-2004, 02:00 PM   #188
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I do not believe that we choose GOD......

I believe GOD has chosen EVERYONE.

I believe that we are responsible for answering GOD'S call to us as best as we can...some of us answer better than others...but the point is that we answer as imperfect as we are...the sin is in NOT answering.
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Old 11-19-2004, 02:01 PM   #189
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Anyone here ever heard of the apostle Thomas?
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Old 11-19-2004, 02:02 PM   #190
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I MISS MELON
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Old 11-19-2004, 02:03 PM   #191
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Quote:
Originally posted by blueyedpoet
geez, ya wait until it's 1:44 pm your local time and five pages of bantering has occured. as much as i'd still like to discuss the issue of determinism, free will, and morality, think i need to interject something else.
There are a lot of skeptics in this thread and there are a lot of christians. My belief is that God is something so far beyond human qualities. God doesn't love; God is love. God doesn't care; God is care.
To my fellow skeptics (and i'm sure i haven't sounded like much of one thus far in this reply) I think if God were the type to talk God would be very thrilled with your line of questioning. I realize this statement sounds like I'm attributing human characteristics to God, cause well it is. Still, I guess i'm just trying to say that asking questions, being curious, demanding more than sunday school answers, are all "holy" (if we use judeo-christian language). Seek, jesus did say.
once again you are right...almost. what is the verse on the cover of atyclb? oh yeah, jeremiah 33:3 "Call to me and I will answer you and tell you great and unsearchable things that you did not know." and elsewhere you find the passage that you reference "seek and ye shall find". of course seeking is important, and it puts you a step ahead of the person who says that they just don't care or that it doesn't matter.

but...and this is where i feel that you went wrong...the seeking is not what makes you holy, it is the answer. i mean, when you take a trip, you are not satisfied with yourself for simply being on the journey. the reason for being on the journey is to reach your destination, and you should not be satisfied until you get there.

so the question becomes, what are you looking for?
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Old 11-19-2004, 02:04 PM   #192
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Quote:
these declarative statements: "Heaven is not a reward, it's chance for those who know God, to be with him on a new earth" make me far more skeptical of the message because of the certainty of the messanger. doubt and struggle are evidence of an active mind, in my opinion.
Ok, so it's the messenger. Sorry.

Do I sound so certain? I have had doubts, untold discussions, questions where I really get into it with other friends and believers. We're always searching, seeking, trying, testing.

That particular statement was meant to bust open this idea that heaven is some magic place that we all go to when we die. From what I know of years of working through scripture, studying, listening, debating, is not that.

It's something much cooler.

I worship God not because of a reward.

I worship God because of his awesome attributes.

Why do you worship U2? Because of their attributes right?
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Old 11-19-2004, 02:07 PM   #193
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
I do not believe that we choose GOD......

I believe GOD has chosen EVERYONE.

I believe that we are responsible for answering GOD'S call to us as best as we can...some of us answer better than others...but the point is that we answer as imperfect as we are...the sin is in NOT answering.
dread, excellent point. that is the message of the gospel. John 3:16 "for God so loved the world that he gave his one and only son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish, but have eternal life." notice that God loves the world, he has called each and every one of us to be with him. all that is required is that we put our faith in him and his promise.
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Old 11-19-2004, 02:07 PM   #194
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"i think god would prefer a struggling skeptic than a blind believer.

but there i go projecting human qualities unto the infinite ..."

maybe we should say that skeptics should not be seen as folks who are greatly out of touch with the divine, maybe they are a lot closer than many realize or would care to admit.
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Old 11-19-2004, 02:08 PM   #195
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Quote:
Originally posted by Macfistowannabe

I highly recommend we all watch The Passion of The Christ. It speaks for itself what Jesus had to go through to give us eternal life. I've heard people say (not on this site, but others) dying is easy, anyone can do it. In reality, every flaw Christ took was out of his love and his willingness to save us. I had no idea how brutal his crucifixion was before I saw this movie, and no wonder why the theaters were silent, people were weeping, and comforting each other.

From what I understand, some people still didn't "get it", whereas many others were transformed through this movie. There was a murderer who killed his girlfriend, covered it up for years, then saw this movie, and admitted to it! He turned himself in because he realized he couldn't just live with the guilt of his sin without confessing it.

There is finally proof that Hollywood can come out with something meaningful.
I think the movie was CRAP......

I think South Parks the Passion of the Jew had more meaning to me than this movie.

If some got meaning out of it....tremendous for them....great.

The message of Christ was NOT present for me in this movie. That does not mean it could not be for others.

Funny, I defended the movie in another thread.....and now I feel completely different about it now that I am working on a few projects in my church.
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