Can Dress Codes Be Racist?

[MrsSpringsteen]

The NBA has instituted a new dress code for players and at least one player says it is racist and attacking a culture

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9730334/

"But the new policy is taking some heat already, with Indiana Pacers guard Stephen Jackson telling ESPN that the league ban on chains worn over clothing is "a racist statement" from the league.

Jackson said he had no problem with requiring players to dress better. But he drew the line at players being told their chains and necklaces can’t be visible over their clothes.

“I just think that’s attacking young, black males,” said Jackson, who wore four chains to the Pacers exhibition game against San Antonio on Tuesday night. “The part about wearing suits, I think we should dress up. A lot of guys have gotten sloppy with the way they dress and I have no problem with that. But the chains, that’s going a little too far.”

Jackson told ESPN that the policy on jewelry was "a racist statement because a lot of the guys who are wearing chains are my age and are black. I wore all my jewelry today to let it be known that I'm upset with it.

"I'll wear a suit every day. I think we do need to look more professional because it is a business. A lot of guys have gotten sloppy with the way they dress. But it's one thing to [enforce a] dress code and it's another thing if you're attacking cultures, and that's what I think they're doing."

 

[Irvine511]

if he could link the wearing of chains to some kind of cultural practice that has a historical basis -- like, for example, how many African-American girls have their ears pierced when they are infants -- then he might have a point.

but it seems to me as if they are cracking down on a style or a trend recently adopted by many african-american males. so i don't think the charge has much basis.

 

[verte76]

I agree irvine, I don't think this is racist.

 

[BVS]

I'm assuming this is off the court dress code.

You have to ask yourself what is the reason behind this ban?

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

This is just one sportswriters opinion..


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9679068/

"Stern was quoted in the Boston Globe as claiming the dress code is "a small thing that contributes to a sense of professionalism. It's what the job entails.''

Actually, no, it isn't.

What the job entails is draining jump shots, or cleaning the glass, or rejecting an Iverson drive in the paint. The job entails playing basketball at a highly proficient level while wearing the uniform dress code of the league — which is to say the uniform of your team. After that, who cares what a guy wears while walking out to his Bentley?

What Stern is trying to do, it seems, is bring his product more in line with its customers, meaning the corporate slugs who can afford NBA tickets on a regular basis

For too long the NBA has courted the hip-hop street culture. That side of town's idea of "business casual'' is ridiculously expensive sneakers, game jerseys and baggy shorts down to the knees. It is a culture that the NBA has been selling ever since the smooth era of Michael Jordan and Magic Johnson.

Now all of a sudden it's time to change course. Why? Because Stern fears things have gone too far. That they have become too street for the average NBA customer."

Is feeling that the players have become too "street" inherently racist in some way (if in fact that is the reasoning behind this dress code)? I never even think of that, I enjoy the game of basketball and those who can play it so incredibly well.

 

[Irvine511]

What the job entails is draining jump shots, or cleaning the glass, or rejecting an Iverson drive in the paint. The job entails playing basketball at a highly proficient level while wearing the uniform dress code of the league — which is to say the uniform of your team. After that, who cares what a guy wears while walking out to his Bentley?

What Stern is trying to do, it seems, is bring his product more in line with its customers, meaning the corporate slugs who can afford NBA tickets on a regular basis

actually, that's a very interesting point.

it does play into old racist ideas -- that african-americans, specifically males, are essentially hired entertainers, jokers or jesters or singers or dancers or gladiators, for rich white people. the rich white people want to be entertained and to marvel at feats of athleticism or musicality or whatever, but they don't want to put up with that which they might find uncouth, or unsettling, or something that's upsetting to strict notions of decorum in white upper-middle class society.

one analogy to this is with gay men on TV and in sitcoms -- we love them as sassy sidekicks or relationship advice gurus for lonely single women everywhere, but god forbid a gay man on TV have a sex life! god forbid you show two gay men (shock! horror!) kissing!

i think the point about packaging is entirely fair.

but then again, the NBA is a product, as much as anything else.

it just happens to be a very racialized product.

 

[Ft. Worth Frog]

The dress code is only to be followed when engaging in team or league business. So for example, if Allen Iverson is injured for a couple of games,he has to wear a suit and no chains at the game. Away from the court while not representin the team, he can wear whatever he wants to.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

Why can't he wear chains at the game or on the plane, whatever? I don't see how that's offensive in any way, and I can see the players' point there.

 

[babyman]

I think it´s not racist, but I don´t see why now they must impose the players how to dress? This is the very least problem in the world. Players wearing chains, bermudas or shirts are the trademark of American Basketball, especially analizing the fact that Basketball was born with this background. Imposing a dress code it´s like cracking the roots of it, although it is not a cultural offence it is such an inelegant way

 

[Ft. Worth Frog]

I think it´s not racist, but I don´t see why now they must impose the players how to dress? This is the very least problem in the world. Players wearing chains, bermudas or shirts are the trademark of American Basketball, especially analizing the fact that Basketball was born with this background. Imposing a dress code it´s like cracking the roots of it, although it is not a cultural offence it is such an inelegant way

Are you being sarcastic? I really can't tell. How was basketball born with that background? And how is the dress code cracking the roots?

 

[randhail]

I think there may be some racist overtones to it. David Stern is not an idiot. The man knows his stuff ands has elevated the NBA to where it is today. I think that he's trying to avoid further alienation of white fans. He knows that white fans shell out money for the tickets and represent a good portion of coporate sponserships. There is no question that people have been put off by the gangsta culture in the NBA. The poor quality of basketball probably contributes too, but it's Stern's way of trying to reel the league back in and under his control.

 

[babyman]

Are you being sarcastic? I really can't tell. How was basketball born with that background? And how is the dress code cracking the roots?

No. I´m not sarcastic. Background in the sense that since basketball was born players always dressed up in that way, bringing an important culture ahead. This dress code in a way seems to mine that origin of basketball

 

[BVS]

The dress code is only to be followed when engaging in team or league business. So for example, if Allen Iverson is injured for a couple of games,he has to wear a suit and no chains at the game. Away from the court while not representin the team, he can wear whatever he wants to.

That's a given, but why if not on the court do they have this ban? What's the reasoning?

I agree with the sportswriter in MrsS posts.

 

[BVS]

No. I´m not sarcastic. Background in the sense that since basketball was born players always dressed up in that way, bringing an important culture ahead. This dress code in a way seems to mine that origin of basketball

Um, no. Take a look:

http://www.hoophall.com/halloffamers/Naismith.htm

 

[babyman]

Um, no. Take a look:

http://www.hoophall.com/halloffamers/Naismith.htm

Oh, never knew it, thanx for the clarifying!

 

[babyman]

The dress code is only to be followed when engaging in team or league business. So for example, if Allen Iverson is injured for a couple of games,he has to wear a suit and no chains at the game. Away from the court while not representin the team, he can wear whatever he wants to.

But what specifically made the birth of this dress code worth?

 

[melon]

I do think dress codes are often racist. Why are school dress codes often as white as white can be? I could see the white parents if their children were forced to dress up in traditional black clothing to school.

Melon

 

[Ft. Worth Frog]

I do think dress codes are often racist. Why are school dress codes often as white as white can be? I could see the white parents if their children were forced to dress up in traditional black clothing to school.

Melon

What do you mean by traditional black clothing? If you mean Africa then what tribe? Here in the US I do not think you could say there is such a thing as traditional black clothing.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

What about this part of the original article, is "reputation" some sort of code word? What do the chains and clothes have to do w/ reputation? David Ortiz on the Boston Red Sox wears tons of bling/chains and dresses in sort of a "hip hop" way, and he has a fantastic, flawless reputation. So Stern thinks dressing a certain way will fix reputations?

"Even so, many NBA players are more comfortable dressing like the fans they cater to. And Cuban, the maverick owner of the Dallas Mavericks, often dresses in T-shirts and jerseys.

“We don’t really sell to big business,” Phoenix guard Raja Bell said. “We sell to kids and people who are into the NBA hip-hop world. They may be marketing to the wrong people with this.”

But, as Stern pointed out, the reputation of the league’s players had fallen to a point that was “not as good as our players are.” That’s why he believes — and insists — the players will readily go along with his policy.

 

[melon]

What do you mean by traditional black clothing? If you mean Africa then what tribe? Here in the US I do not think you could say there is such a thing as traditional black clothing.

But the stereotypical school uniform with the Scottish tartan skirts for the girls are certainly not American. They're "traditional British clothing." So I'd say that "traditional African clothing" from Africa wouldn't be illogical.

Melon

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

I think it´s not racist, but I don´t see why now they must impose the players how to dress? This is the very least problem in the world. Players wearing chains, bermudas or shirts are the trademark of American Basketball, especially analizing the fact that Basketball was born with this background. Imposing a dress code it´s like cracking the roots of it, although it is not a cultural offence it is such an inelegant way

basketball was invented by a very white canadian gym teacher working in springfield, massachusets. born in this background? i think not.

so if you really want to go back to the "roots" of basketball, this is what the good dr. james naismith wore...

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

the Basketball Hall of Fame is awesome

I have to wonder of there is racism here working in conjunction w/ marketing..aka white people like to watch African Americans play as long as they're not too "gangsta" and "in our face" about themselves..ooh, how scary . That is offensive to white people and African Americans. If reputation had anything to do w/ dressing well, Kobe Bryant would still have that squeaky clean rep, wouldn't he?

 

[BVS]

the Basketball Hall of Fame is awesome

I have to wonder of there is racism here working in conjunction w/ marketing..aka white people like to watch African Americans play as long as they're not too "gangsta" and "in our face" about themselves..ooh, how scary . That is offensive to white people and African Americans. If reputation had anything to do w/ dressing well, Kobe Bryant would still have that squeaky clean rep, wouldn't he?

I've noticed that. I've overheard when watching sports at sportsbars or what not, that reactions to the players are a little different when one is wearing dreads. It usually comes from the "I'm really not a racists, but" crowd.

 

[nbcrusader]

The charge of racism is valid as long as you leave open notions such as "race always matters" and "latent racism". I would find it hard to believe that wearing gold chains is an inherent part of the African American culture. Mr. T does not represent all African Americans.

But this isn't about race. It is about an individual standing out from the crowd. It is much easier to claim racial descrimination that to set forth an argument for individuality in a team sport.

 

[melon]

I would find it hard to believe that wearing gold chains is an inherent part of the African American culture. Mr. T does not represent all African Americans.

But here's the thing: you don't define African American culture. African Americans do. And not all people who wear gold chains are Mr. T.

But, yet, "white people" seem to be doing all the defining in terms of what is "appropriate" and "professional." And who gives us that right to make such sweeping proclamations for all cultures? It's all just an assortment of fabric and metal anyway, no matter who is wearing it.

Melon

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

this is rediculous... first and foremost, the source of this racist claim is the fine upstanding citizen seen here, wearing a yellow headband...

the man helped start a riot, and when asked if he would do it agian, he simply replied yes. he was "protecting his family" by running into the stands and blindly throwing punches at fans. top quality human being we're discussing here

fact of the matter is that the majority of nba players... both black and white, past and present... have absolutely no problem with the new dress code. most already dressed that way, anyways.


secondly... basketball is played by more than just african-americans. this rule is in place for whites, blacks, asians, europeans, etc. etc. etc.

to call this rule racist is obsurd. i've played basketball my entire life... from middle school up through college. i now coach it on the high school level. at every single level it has been expected that if you are not in uniform you will be dressed appropriately... normaly meaning shirt and tie. when traveling together as a team, it was also expected that you were dressed appropriately. meaning you either wore a shirt and tie, or as a team you all wore the same team issued warmups. at every level i've played... be it middle school, JV, varsity or college... if you violated these rules, you were not allowed on the bus... simple as that. if you were going to be part of the team, you were going to dress as a team and show a little bit of class. what you wore/did on your own time is your own business.

i would have preferred that this edict come down from the individual teams, and not the league. but apparently, the teams have been trying to do it with no avial... so the league stepped in.

when allen iverson's injured, he sits on the bench in a throw-back jeresey, sideways hat, all that stuff. often, the jersey he's wearing on the bench isn't even one of the team he plays for, but some other team. it's tacky and disrespectful, and it's about damn time they did something to change it. it would be like david ortiz sitting in the dugout wearing a micky mantle throw back. you don't see it, 'cause baseball has rules. you wear team issued gear in the dugout, or you don't sit in the dugout. i own basketball jerseys, football jerseys, baseball jerseys, etc. i wear them out to a game as a fan... to a bar... to whatever. i never would have dreamed in a million years of showing up to a team function wearing one. just like allen iverson never would have dreamed of showing up to a team function at Georgetown University not dressed appropriately, because he knew that John Thompson, the coach at the time, would have ripped him a new one. Oh yea... John Thompson is black, and has been one of the leader's in sports when it comes to civil rights.

this is not a racial issue at all. is the dress code at your place of work "racist?" is being expected to wear a shirt and tie at a place of business racist?



*let it also be known that all of the trendsetters over the course of the NBA... be it Clyde Frazier or Michael Jordan... were african-american... and wore suits when sitting on the bench while not in uniform.

 

[BVS]

The charge of racism is valid as long as you leave open notions such as "race always matters" and "latent racism". I would find it hard to believe that wearing gold chains is an inherent part of the African American culture. Mr. T does not represent all African Americans.

But this isn't about race. It is about an individual standing out from the crowd. It is much easier to claim racial descrimination that to set forth an argument for individuality in a team sport.

Um but if was just one person wearing chains, they probably wouldn't have to enforce the ban.

Come on with the Mr. T reference, I mean you have taken a look around lately right?

 

[melon]

to call this rule racist is obsurd. i've played basketball my entire life... from middle school up through college. i now coach it on the high school level. at every single level it has been expected that if you are not in uniform you will be dressed appropriately... normaly meaning shirt and tie.

"A shirt and tie" meaning archetypically white clothing. That's what I mean by "latent racism." Imagine if you were forced to wear archetypically "black clothing."

I don't expect to change society at all, since we're talking about ingrained cultural constructs here, but I feel like pointing out what seems like a bunch of nonsense to me. I have to ask "why" a shirt and a tie is "professional," and, yet, what these people are wearing is "not"? He may very well be an asshole in a yellow headband, but I think that's completely peripheral to this argument. A man in a shirt and a tie who acts like an asshole will still get disciplined, right?

Melon

 

[Irvine511]

to call this rule racist is obsurd. i've played basketball my entire life... from middle school up through college. i now coach it on the high school level. at every single level it has been expected that if you are not in uniform you will be dressed appropriately... normaly meaning shirt and tie. when traveling together as a team, it was also expected that you were dressed appropriately. meaning you either wore a shirt and tie, or as a team you all wore the same team issued warmups. at every level i've played... be it middle school, JV, varsity or college... if you violated these rules, you were not allowed on the bus... simple as that. if you were going to be part of the team, you were going to dress as a team and show a little bit of class. what you wore/did on your own time is your own business.

but that's because you are representing the school and you are dealing with children and teenagers. these are professional adult athletes.

 

[BVS]

secondly... basketball is played by more than just african-americans. this rule is in place for whites, blacks, asians, europeans, etc. etc. etc.

to call this rule racist is obsurd. i've played basketball my entire life... from middle school up through college. i now coach it on the high school level. at every single level it has been expected that if you are not in uniform you will be dressed appropriately... normaly meaning shirt and tie. when traveling together as a team, it was also expected that you were dressed appropriately.

First of all, attacking the individual is childish.

Secondly you are missing the point. Yes this rule applies to everyone, but how many of the white, asian, and european players were wearing chains?

No one is arguing that having the players dress appropriate is the issue.

The issue is that who and why are we making the decision that chains aren't appropriate? Many black people wear chains over their suits. Why is it not appropriate?

I've asked this three times in this thread yet no one can aswer me.