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Old 10-19-2005, 03:14 PM   #91
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Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen
And I don't see sports talk radio as being a definitive reference point about this issue, I know here we have people who host those shows who have made racist comments themselves. I'm not saying players' opinions about this issue being aired on TV/radio isn't important and'or relevant, because it is.

Maybe this just brings up larger issues about how we all have prejudices like melon said, and we all judge based upon a style of dress or other factors. Like I said previously, are some of these players too 'gangsta" for some people? I just think that's silly
they can still wear whatever the hell they want when they're not in a working environment.
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Old 10-19-2005, 03:20 PM   #92
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Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen
And I don't see sports talk radio as being a definitive reference point about this issue,
yet you see stephen jackson, a man who not only charged into the stands to punch out a fan, but to this day, publicly states that he was justified in doing so, and would do it again to defend the honor of his teammate, ron artest, is a definitive reference?
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Old 10-19-2005, 03:22 PM   #93
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No I don't headache, I merely use his comments as a springboard for discussion.

But if that makes you feel like you are one upping me or whatever It's a discussion, not a pissing contest.
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Old 10-19-2005, 03:23 PM   #94
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so a counter point is now a one up in a pissing contest.

you were discounting my remark about discussions on espnradio, i'm discounting stephen jackson.

as much as i enjoy pissing... that is not what i was doing here.

thanks though.
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Old 10-19-2005, 03:27 PM   #95
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No headache, you're wrong. You made an untrue assumption that I was using Jackson as a definitive reference point. Read my post again please, I was NOT discounting your comments about ESPN, not entirely. I was commenting on SOME talk radio.

Frankly I'm tired of it though, if I bother you that much simply ignore me.
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Old 10-19-2005, 03:32 PM   #96
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if jackson is not a definitive reference point, then what the heck is the point? he's the one who made the comment that we're supposedly discussing.
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Old 10-19-2005, 03:32 PM   #97
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Most NBA players don't have a problem with this, and I certainly don't think Stephen Jackson is regarded very highly with his reputation. For him to suggest this is racist is apalling, but then again, his behavior is usually like that, so no surprise there.
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Old 10-19-2005, 03:34 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally posted by Headache in a Suitcase
if jackson is not a definitive reference point, then what the heck is the point? he's the one who made the comment that we're supposedly discussing.
the point is that his comments are merely a springboard for discussion, that's all, and that's all they are for me

like I said, whether others think it is racist in any way is another issue
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Old 10-19-2005, 03:37 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally posted by phanan
Most NBA players don't have a problem with this, and I certainly don't think Stephen Jackson is regarded very highly with his reputation. For him to suggest this is racist is apalling, but then again, his behavior is usually like that, so no surprise there.
thank you
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Old 10-20-2005, 10:37 AM   #100
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Dress code wears thin with Pierce

By Shira Springer, Globe Staff | October 20, 2005

Call it a quick change, but Paul Pierce has joined the list of prominent NBA players opposed to the league's new dress code.

Initially, the Celtics' four-time All-Star supported the call for ''business casual." But he spoke before he read the actual guidelines. Before last night's exhibition game between the Celtics and Bulls at the TD Banknorth Garden, Pierce issued a more informed and less agreeable opinion.

''We're not businessmen," said Pierce. ''We don't have to go to work early in the morning. I think you look at us as entertainers. People buy tickets to be entertained. This is a form of entertainment. You should be able to dress how you feel. That's the beauty of us, that we have that kind of creativity to express ourselves. I don't agree with it.

''Every player should have a feel of how they market their own selves. If you don't feel like you have to wear a coat and tie, you shouldn't have to. Every player is different in their own way, just like they are on the court. You look at these artists, these actors, these movie stars, they're entertainers and they have their own sense of style. It's the same with what we do. We're an industry. We should be able to dress the way we feel. This is more a freestyle, freelance business, just like acting. If you want to market yourself a certain way by the way you dress, I feel you should be allowed to."

Pierce felt like dressing in an olive brown dress casual suit with a window pane print last night. In general, his attire ranges from suits to sweaters and jeans. But he also likes throwback jerseys, bejeweled chains, and sunglasses, all forbidden under the new code.

The NBA has defined ''business casual" as long- or short-sleeved dress shirts (collared or turtleneck) and/or sweaters, slacks, khaki pants, and dress jeans, and appropriate shoes and socks. The long list of prohibited items includes T-shirts, any type of headgear, chains, pendants or medallions, sunglasses while indoors, and headphones outside the locker room, team bus or plane. Indiana's Stephen Jackson called the policy ''racist." Many young, black players have objected to the ban on ''bling." But while many Celtics players and coach Doc Rivers have accepted the dress code, Pierce believes Jackson has a legitimate point.

''In a way, I think [the code] kind of is [racist]," Pierce said. ''When I saw the rule that you can't wear chains [I thought it was]. That's just part of our culture, when we wear the chains and the hip-hop gear and the throwback jerseys. I don't know if it's racist, how he feels it is. But it's definitely something that's part of the league."

He feels that the dress code is an attempt by commissioner David Stern to placate corporate America and curb concerns about the league's image.

''I guess the league is trying to clean up the image," said Pierce. ''They've done surveys . . . and they say that we're behind baseball and football and the rest of the sports. But also we're one of the most visible sports in all of sports, so we get more notoriety. Our faces are shown. . . . We're just in tank tops and shorts. We're more visible. That's probably why we get that type of [negative] perception."

Although the players' union and the coaches were kept apprised of the move toward a stricter dress code, Pierce wishes more players had known more about what would be prohibited. Pierce plans to continue dressing however he feels. Some days he will be in compliance; others he will not. Once the dress code goes into effect Nov. 1, he expects to incur some fines.

''There should have been a vote on it. I just think they went about it the wrong way," said Pierce. ''If you look at the league's stars, the players that are marketed by this league, the Allen Iversons, the Tracy McGradys, the LeBron Jameses, they pretty much dress how they feel."

Then, Pierce tried to construct the flip-side of the argument, in an attempt to claim that clothes do not make the man. ''I don't think you should be perceived [a certain way] based on the way you dress," he said. ''I could be the most ruthless person in the world in a coat and tie. As a matter of fact, white-collar crime is the worst crime there is."

But that is a topic for another day. Right now, the NBA has its deep pockets and Prada man purses full with the dress code debate.
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Old 10-20-2005, 10:51 AM   #101
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NBA dress code restores sanity to ludicrous image
By Terence Moore | Wednesday, October 19, 2005, 09:31 PM

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution



Terence Moore

What am I missing here regarding this silly whining over the NBA’s welcomed new dress code? Nothing, because isn’t there a line in one of those tight (I got that word from my 14-year-old godson Julian) songs by Jay-Z that says, “Give me a crisp pair of jeans and a button-up?”

Yep. This is the same Jay-Z who is a part owner of the New Jersey Nets. This also is the same Jay-Z who attends games wearing tailored suits. You have Nelly, too, the equally sharp dresser as a part owner of the Charlotte Bobcats. Which all blows away a couple of myths this week quicker than a fast break. No, commissioner David Stern didn’t become the league’s Bull Connor with his latest edict involving that dress code. And, no, NBA officials aren’t hypocrites after years of merging basketball with hip-hop. All you have to do is review what I just said about Jay-Z and Nelly, and then put your hands in the air and wave them like you just don’t care.

I’m still giddy. After all, Stern did the right thing. I’m sick of walking into locker rooms and press conferences these days and cringing. It may be your right as a big-time athlete to dress as a street hustler or even as Homey The Clown, but you’re hurting others. As somebody who works often with youth, I know the truth here: Whether we like it or not, athletes always have been and always will be role models to kids.

The question is: What kind of role models are we talking about?

According to research by Richard E. Lapchick of Central Florida, only one out of 10,000 high school basketball players will spend a millisecond in the NBA. Even so, Lapchick determined that 59 percent of those youngsters believe they will dribble as a pro someday. Thus is the reason why a slew of them wish to play and dress like their favorite pro athlete. Thus also is the reason why a slew of them don’t find real jobs after they fill out applications while wearing their versions of a jumbo cap turned sideways over a do-rag, a throwback jersey and enough bling bling to make the sun look for shades.

So here’s some advice to NBA players who can’t stand the thought of shedding the thug look when they are on duty for their teams: Just dress up and shut up. Either that, or find another job that will pay you millions with your desire to do your best Flavor Flav routine.

It’s called being professional on and off the court. That’s all the NBA is asking players to do. In fact, while performing team or league business, the NBA is asking players to do what most of them were required to do in college. Nice slacks or “a crisp pair of jeans” instead of workout sweats or sagging pants. Dress shoes instead of flip-flops, sneakers or sandals. Collared shirts or sweaters instead of T-shirts or jerseys. No headphones or headgear. Definitely no bling bling over clothing, not even to cover up endless tattoos.

In a rare case of omniscience by the historically clueless Hawks, general manager Billy Knight already was demanding those things of his players, and he did so months before Stern had everybody else in the league follow suit (pun intended). Knight has gone further than his peers. He requires players to wear sports coats on plane trips and while entering and leaving arenas.

You can blame the insufferable Allen Iverson for the start of this sloppy epidemic that has become the rage of pro athletes in general. Prior to Iverson’s arrival to the NBA during the late 1990s, players weren’t into Keeping It Real, as in Keeping It Real Stupid. They were into Keeping It Classy, as in following Michael Jordan’s lead. Not only did he rank as His Airness, but as His Armani. He took dressing beyond presentable all the way to legendary commercials and to an unprecedented Nike deal at the time. Along with Jordan, you had Magic Johnson, Isiah Thomas, Reggie Miller and others serving as examples as to how to dress for success.

Stern wants those examples back. So do I, and so do Jay-Z and Nelly. And so should everybody who isn’t Ludacris.

http://www.ajc.com/blogs/content/sha...ress_code.html
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Old 10-20-2005, 11:42 AM   #102
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I can't get too upset or sympathetic towards spoiled, over-indulged, highly paid jocks having to abide by a dress code.
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Old 10-20-2005, 02:55 PM   #103
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Regarding that idiot who wants a clothing allowance if they insist on them wearing suits - hello! Just because my place of employment expects me not to show up in my PJs doesn't mean they need to go purchase something other than PJs for me to wear. Welcome to reality.

Quite frankly, from what I've read it doesn't seem to me that this is a racism issue except for a handful of players. We have other players insinuating they don't want ANY kind of dress code at all, and yet others saying they agree with it. So it's not as if you have a unified theory here at work.

It sounds to me more like some of the players want to do what they want to do and will find 101 different reasons to justify why. From racism to stifling of individuality to a statement against their artistic value to not having a clothing stipend and so on.
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Old 10-20-2005, 03:12 PM   #104
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Originally posted by anitram
Regarding that idiot who wants a clothing allowance if they insist on them wearing suits - hello! Just because my place of employment expects me not to show up in my PJs doesn't mean they need to go purchase something other than PJs for me to wear. Welcome to reality.

Quite frankly, from what I've read it doesn't seem to me that this is a racism issue except for a handful of players. We have other players insinuating they don't want ANY kind of dress code at all, and yet others saying they agree with it. So it's not as if you have a unified theory here at work.

It sounds to me more like some of the players want to do what they want to do and will find 101 different reasons to justify why. From racism to stifling of individuality to a statement against their artistic value to not having a clothing stipend and so on.
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Old 10-20-2005, 06:45 PM   #105
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the hockey new york rangers 2 years ago had a dress code....suits had to be worn, only english was supposd to be spoken between teammates at anything team related...and all players had to have their hair cut. the one player exempt from that hair cut rule was anson carter. he had dreadlocks. he is black. he was wearing them for style purposes and not for religious purposes or anything as far as i know. thats a form of reverse discrimination....so it can go both ways i guess....
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