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Headache in a Suitcase said:
How would they be significant? Unless there was something that was banned that many of the white players often wore yet didn't fit the standard of the owner due to image issues.
Can Dress Codes Be Racist?
- Thread starter MrsSpringsteen
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If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
How would they be significant? Unless there was something that was banned that many of the white players often wore yet didn't fit the standard of the owner due to image issues.
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Headache in a Suitcase said:
No it was can dress codes be racist and is this one racist...
But now I realize why your last few posts haven't made any sense.
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MrsSpringsteen
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Headache in a Suitcase said:
well that's what I titled it, can they be, that doesn't mean there arent and can't be other issues
Yes Michael Jordan is what the NBA wants, but put him in some chains and "hip hop" clothes and he's still the same player and man. He had his issues w/ gambling and womanizing rumors, in spite of the clean cut image that his clothing and style portrayed. I think that's relevant and that's what the NBA should be concerned about.
BonoVoxSupastar said:
holy jeez... it's significant because it backs up the idea that this is a common practice by most sport organizations at all levels, at least here in north america... which has been my entire damned argument to begin with.
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MrsSpringsteen
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nevermind, I see you edited that headache 
MrsSpringsteen said:
well i was in the process of taking it out but here... just for you
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MrsSpringsteen
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nice headache, really
MrsSpringsteen said:
thanks
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Headache in a Suitcase said:
But your argument is walking all around this specific dress code, and avoiding these specific issues.
I don't think anyone here is arguing that dress codes shouldn't exist, but that's what you seem to keep harping on.
BonoVoxSupastar said:
this specific dress code is in line with other dress codes in other sports.
why is it that now it's racist when it isn't racist in hockey, football or baseball?
nbcrusader said:It is part of the latent ideas expressed here.
I know you're saying it mostly in jest, but when I said that everyone is guilty of it, I meant it. No one is immune to latent prejudice. The problem then arises in terms of the power to do something about it. Prejudice expoused by white people can have a real tangible effect on minorities. After all, the prejudice expoused by heterosexuals affects the lives of homosexuals every day. But even if homosexuals suddenly started hating heterosexuals, they're not in a position to do anything about it. Likewise, any prejudice expoused by blacks onto white people is generally meaningless, because they are not in a position to legislate those prejudices into law.
That's why the emphasis is often placed on white prejudice; or, more generically, an emphasis on the the prejudices of the dominant hegemony, which, in the case of the United States, is the straight white Christian male.
Melon
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Headache in a Suitcase said:
So you know they all ban necklaces outside the suit? Interesting, I should tell a few football players that.
financeguy
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I'm with Headache on this one, the administrators are entitled to enforce a dress code, as with an employer.
BonoVoxSupastar said:
maybe you should... and while you're at it, ask them about the fines they've gotten for violating league policies re: dress code.
in the 1990s chuck daily put in a dress code for the new jersey nets re: suits on airplanes. derrick coleman didn't want to conform to the dress code. he gave daily a blank check and proceeded to wear whatever he wanted.
you seem to be stuck on this necklace issue... i'm more into discussing the dress code as a whole.
do i know if a necklace specificly is part of every leagues dress code? no... i do not.
i also do not know how anyone would see including a necklace in this dress code as being racialy biased.
financeguy said:
Of course they have the right and power to do so. Even if I have an objection to a dress code, I do follow it here in the real world.
But my point, at least, is to philosophically question the fairness of existing dress codes. But rules are rules, and you're forced to do what your boss tells you, even if he may be an inflexible old git.
Melon
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MrsSpringsteen
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The necklace issue is important, that's what the original player was complaining was relevant re the racism/culturalism issue
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financeguy said:
But I'm not saying they can't, I'm asking why are they targeting certain items? And not one person can give me a good answer, they give me the individual argument, but then back down when I show that that doesn't apply.
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Headache in a Suitcase said:
Did you read the premise article? The whole thing is about the frickin necklace. He wasn't arguing about the suit!!!
MrsSpringsteen said:
well i'd go after the original player's value as a reference again, but alas, i'll be called childish.
BonoVoxSupastar said:
so shall i post articles that quote allen iverson and a few other players instead?
the issue as a whole is more than just the necklace. that is just one player's personal opinion.
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Headache in a Suitcase said:
BonoVoxSupastar said:
you must remember that you are quoting professional athletes, many of whom, such as mr. camby, are out of touch with reality.
david stern consulted with both billy hunter, executive director of the player's union, and antonio davis, president of the union/member of the new york knicks, before putting this rule into effect.
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MrsSpringsteen
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the player in question sees it as racist, whether others do well that's another question
maybe there are white basketball players who wear visible and/or multiple chains
maybe there are white basketball players who wear visible and/or multiple chains
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Headache in a Suitcase said:
Well you've missed the whole point of this thread then.
NO ONE SAID THAT HAVING A DRESS CODE WAS RACIST, THEY CLAIMED CERTAIN ISSUES OF IT TO BE.
But you've seemed to ignore that.
randhail
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Headache in a Suitcase said:
Exactly Stephen Jackson isn't exactly the poster boy for model behavior. He's probably willing to go head on with Stern on any issue. He's really the only voice coming out against this policy too.
BonoVoxSupastar said:
you, apparently, need to go listen to some sports talk radio and/or television, where the topic of discussion is very much over wether or not the dres code AS A WHOLE is racist.
mike and mike in the morning on espnradio today talked with michael wilbon for a good 20 minutes this morning over wether or not the dress code... as a whole... is racist.
i know... sports topics and FYM don't usually go hand-in-hand. perhaps this thread is better suited.. hehe... suited... in put 'em under pressure.
if my bringing the entire issue as a whole into a discussion over one simple necklace was confusing, i appologize.
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MrsSpringsteen
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/latimests/20051019/ts_latimes/nbalistsfashiondosanddonts&printer=1
"ESPN personality and Philadelphia Inquirer columnist Stephen A. Smith, who is African American, wrote recently in support of the dress code, while suggesting that it was in part racially motivated.
"When you are selling a sport overwhelmingly populated by young black males to an older white audience, the reality is that impressions, first or otherwise, often determine your product's success," Smith wrote.
" … Indeed, there's a racial element here. But since there are 60-year-old black parents and grandparents just as appalled by some players' attire, there is a generational element too," he added.
Peter Roby, director of Northeastern University's Center for the Study of Sport in Society, cautioned the NBA to tread lightly.
"There are plenty of well-dressed people now going to prison for defrauding their shareholders," Roby said. "We have to be careful about making assumptions about folks simply on the way they look. That's a dangerous thing to do because it's how we start to create stereotypes."
But Todd Boyd, a USC professor of critical studies and author of "Young, Black, Rich and Famous: The Rise of the NBA, the Hip-Hop Invasion and the Transformation of American Culture," said fans would not be alienated.
"In the last two years, hip-hop itself has become increasingly fashionable," he said, noting that rapper Jay-Z, a part owner of the New Jersey Nets, included lyrics on his 2003 CD, "The Black Album," commanding listeners to dress better.
Anyone wearing a vintage jersey now, Boyd said, is out of style.
Indeed, to fashion insiders, the league needn't have issued a dictum."
"ESPN personality and Philadelphia Inquirer columnist Stephen A. Smith, who is African American, wrote recently in support of the dress code, while suggesting that it was in part racially motivated.
"When you are selling a sport overwhelmingly populated by young black males to an older white audience, the reality is that impressions, first or otherwise, often determine your product's success," Smith wrote.
" … Indeed, there's a racial element here. But since there are 60-year-old black parents and grandparents just as appalled by some players' attire, there is a generational element too," he added.
Peter Roby, director of Northeastern University's Center for the Study of Sport in Society, cautioned the NBA to tread lightly.
"There are plenty of well-dressed people now going to prison for defrauding their shareholders," Roby said. "We have to be careful about making assumptions about folks simply on the way they look. That's a dangerous thing to do because it's how we start to create stereotypes."
But Todd Boyd, a USC professor of critical studies and author of "Young, Black, Rich and Famous: The Rise of the NBA, the Hip-Hop Invasion and the Transformation of American Culture," said fans would not be alienated.
"In the last two years, hip-hop itself has become increasingly fashionable," he said, noting that rapper Jay-Z, a part owner of the New Jersey Nets, included lyrics on his 2003 CD, "The Black Album," commanding listeners to dress better.
Anyone wearing a vintage jersey now, Boyd said, is out of style.
Indeed, to fashion insiders, the league needn't have issued a dictum."
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MrsSpringsteen said:
Thank you. This is how the issue was brought to this forum and silly me this is how I debated it.
for the record, sunglasses worn indoors are also on the "no" list.
perhaps one could insinuate that the nba has a racial vendeta against short irish singers.
perhaps one could insinuate that the nba has a racial vendeta against short irish singers.
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MrsSpringsteen
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And I don't see sports talk radio as being a definitive reference point about this issue, I know here we have people who host those shows who have made racist comments themselves. I'm not saying players' opinions about this issue being aired on TV/radio isn't important and/or relevant, because it is.
Maybe this just brings up larger issues about how we all have prejudices like melon said, and we all judge based upon a style of dress or other factors. Like I said previously, are some of these players too 'gangsta" for some people? I just think that's silly
and that they should be concerned w/ content of character. They being fans and the NBA.
Maybe this just brings up larger issues about how we all have prejudices like melon said, and we all judge based upon a style of dress or other factors. Like I said previously, are some of these players too 'gangsta" for some people? I just think that's silly
and that they should be concerned w/ content of character. They being fans and the NBA.Similar threads
