Can Dress Codes Be Racist? - Page 2 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 10-19-2005, 10:57 AM   #16
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
babyman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: On an open cluster called Pleiades
Posts: 6,246
Local Time: 11:17 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Ft. Worth Frog
The dress code is only to be followed when engaging in team or league business. So for example, if Allen Iverson is injured for a couple of games,he has to wear a suit and no chains at the game. Away from the court while not representin the team, he can wear whatever he wants to.



But what specifically made the birth of this dress code worth?
__________________

__________________
babyman is offline  
Old 10-19-2005, 11:01 AM   #17
ONE
love, blood, life
 
melon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 11,781
Local Time: 04:17 PM
I do think dress codes are often racist. Why are school dress codes often as white as white can be? I could see the white parents if their children were forced to dress up in traditional black clothing to school.

Melon
__________________

__________________
melon is offline  
Old 10-19-2005, 11:14 AM   #18
Acrobat
 
Ft. Worth Frog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Fort Worth
Posts: 390
Local Time: 04:17 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by melon
I do think dress codes are often racist. Why are school dress codes often as white as white can be? I could see the white parents if their children were forced to dress up in traditional black clothing to school.

Melon

What do you mean by traditional black clothing? If you mean Africa then what tribe? Here in the US I do not think you could say there is such a thing as traditional black clothing.
__________________
Ft. Worth Frog is offline  
Old 10-19-2005, 11:40 AM   #19
Blue Crack Addict
 
MrsSpringsteen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 24,974
Local Time: 04:17 PM
What about this part of the original article, is "reputation" some sort of code word? What do the chains and clothes have to do w/ reputation? David Ortiz on the Boston Red Sox wears tons of bling/chains and dresses in sort of a "hip hop" way, and he has a fantastic, flawless reputation. So Stern thinks dressing a certain way will fix reputations?

"Even so, many NBA players are more comfortable dressing like the fans they cater to. And Cuban, the maverick owner of the Dallas Mavericks, often dresses in T-shirts and jerseys.

“We don’t really sell to big business,” Phoenix guard Raja Bell said. “We sell to kids and people who are into the NBA hip-hop world. They may be marketing to the wrong people with this.”

But, as Stern pointed out, the reputation of the league’s players had fallen to a point that was “not as good as our players are.” That’s why he believes — and insists — the players will readily go along with his policy.
__________________
MrsSpringsteen is offline  
Old 10-19-2005, 11:42 AM   #20
ONE
love, blood, life
 
melon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 11,781
Local Time: 04:17 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Ft. Worth Frog
What do you mean by traditional black clothing? If you mean Africa then what tribe? Here in the US I do not think you could say there is such a thing as traditional black clothing.
But the stereotypical school uniform with the Scottish tartan skirts for the girls are certainly not American. They're "traditional British clothing." So I'd say that "traditional African clothing" from Africa wouldn't be illogical.

Melon
__________________
melon is offline  
Old 10-19-2005, 11:49 AM   #21
Blue Crack Distributor
 
Headache in a Suitcase's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Stateless
Posts: 56,347
Local Time: 04:17 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by babyman
I think it´s not racist, but I don´t see why now they must impose the players how to dress? This is the very least problem in the world. Players wearing chains, bermudas or shirts are the trademark of American Basketball, especially analizing the fact that Basketball was born with this background. Imposing a dress code it´s like cracking the roots of it, although it is not a cultural offence it is such an inelegant way
basketball was invented by a very white canadian gym teacher working in springfield, massachusets. born in this background? i think not.

so if you really want to go back to the "roots" of basketball, this is what the good dr. james naismith wore...

__________________
Headache in a Suitcase is online now  
Old 10-19-2005, 11:54 AM   #22
Blue Crack Addict
 
MrsSpringsteen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 24,974
Local Time: 04:17 PM
the Basketball Hall of Fame is awesome

I have to wonder of there is racism here working in conjunction w/ marketing..aka white people like to watch African Americans play as long as they're not too "gangsta" and "in our face" about themselves..ooh, how scary . That is offensive to white people and African Americans. If reputation had anything to do w/ dressing well, Kobe Bryant would still have that squeaky clean rep, wouldn't he?
__________________
MrsSpringsteen is offline  
Old 10-19-2005, 12:11 PM   #23
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,649
Local Time: 03:17 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen
the Basketball Hall of Fame is awesome

I have to wonder of there is racism here working in conjunction w/ marketing..aka white people like to watch African Americans play as long as they're not too "gangsta" and "in our face" about themselves..ooh, how scary . That is offensive to white people and African Americans. If reputation had anything to do w/ dressing well, Kobe Bryant would still have that squeaky clean rep, wouldn't he?
I've noticed that. I've overheard when watching sports at sportsbars or what not, that reactions to the players are a little different when one is wearing dreads. It usually comes from the "I'm really not a racists, but" crowd.
__________________
BVS is online now  
Old 10-19-2005, 12:15 PM   #24
Blue Crack Addict
 
nbcrusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 01:17 PM
The charge of racism is valid as long as you leave open notions such as "race always matters" and "latent racism". I would find it hard to believe that wearing gold chains is an inherent part of the African American culture. Mr. T does not represent all African Americans.

But this isn't about race. It is about an individual standing out from the crowd. It is much easier to claim racial descrimination that to set forth an argument for individuality in a team sport.
__________________
nbcrusader is offline  
Old 10-19-2005, 12:23 PM   #25
ONE
love, blood, life
 
melon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 11,781
Local Time: 04:17 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
I would find it hard to believe that wearing gold chains is an inherent part of the African American culture. Mr. T does not represent all African Americans.
But here's the thing: you don't define African American culture. African Americans do. And not all people who wear gold chains are Mr. T.

But, yet, "white people" seem to be doing all the defining in terms of what is "appropriate" and "professional." And who gives us that right to make such sweeping proclamations for all cultures? It's all just an assortment of fabric and metal anyway, no matter who is wearing it.

Melon
__________________
melon is offline  
Old 10-19-2005, 12:25 PM   #26
Blue Crack Distributor
 
Headache in a Suitcase's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Stateless
Posts: 56,347
Local Time: 04:17 PM
this is rediculous... first and foremost, the source of this racist claim is the fine upstanding citizen seen here, wearing a yellow headband...



the man helped start a riot, and when asked if he would do it agian, he simply replied yes. he was "protecting his family" by running into the stands and blindly throwing punches at fans. top quality human being we're discussing here

fact of the matter is that the majority of nba players... both black and white, past and present... have absolutely no problem with the new dress code. most already dressed that way, anyways.


secondly... basketball is played by more than just african-americans. this rule is in place for whites, blacks, asians, europeans, etc. etc. etc.

to call this rule racist is obsurd. i've played basketball my entire life... from middle school up through college. i now coach it on the high school level. at every single level it has been expected that if you are not in uniform you will be dressed appropriately... normaly meaning shirt and tie. when traveling together as a team, it was also expected that you were dressed appropriately. meaning you either wore a shirt and tie, or as a team you all wore the same team issued warmups. at every level i've played... be it middle school, JV, varsity or college... if you violated these rules, you were not allowed on the bus... simple as that. if you were going to be part of the team, you were going to dress as a team and show a little bit of class. what you wore/did on your own time is your own business.

i would have preferred that this edict come down from the individual teams, and not the league. but apparently, the teams have been trying to do it with no avial... so the league stepped in.

when allen iverson's injured, he sits on the bench in a throw-back jeresey, sideways hat, all that stuff. often, the jersey he's wearing on the bench isn't even one of the team he plays for, but some other team. it's tacky and disrespectful, and it's about damn time they did something to change it. it would be like david ortiz sitting in the dugout wearing a micky mantle throw back. you don't see it, 'cause baseball has rules. you wear team issued gear in the dugout, or you don't sit in the dugout. i own basketball jerseys, football jerseys, baseball jerseys, etc. i wear them out to a game as a fan... to a bar... to whatever. i never would have dreamed in a million years of showing up to a team function wearing one. just like allen iverson never would have dreamed of showing up to a team function at Georgetown University not dressed appropriately, because he knew that John Thompson, the coach at the time, would have ripped him a new one. Oh yea... John Thompson is black, and has been one of the leader's in sports when it comes to civil rights.

this is not a racial issue at all. is the dress code at your place of work "racist?" is being expected to wear a shirt and tie at a place of business racist?



*let it also be known that all of the trendsetters over the course of the NBA... be it Clyde Frazier or Michael Jordan... were african-american... and wore suits when sitting on the bench while not in uniform.
__________________
Headache in a Suitcase is online now  
Old 10-19-2005, 12:25 PM   #27
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,649
Local Time: 03:17 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
The charge of racism is valid as long as you leave open notions such as "race always matters" and "latent racism". I would find it hard to believe that wearing gold chains is an inherent part of the African American culture. Mr. T does not represent all African Americans.

But this isn't about race. It is about an individual standing out from the crowd. It is much easier to claim racial descrimination that to set forth an argument for individuality in a team sport.
Um but if was just one person wearing chains, they probably wouldn't have to enforce the ban.

Come on with the Mr. T reference, I mean you have taken a look around lately right?
__________________
BVS is online now  
Old 10-19-2005, 12:29 PM   #28
ONE
love, blood, life
 
melon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 11,781
Local Time: 04:17 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Headache in a Suitcase
to call this rule racist is obsurd. i've played basketball my entire life... from middle school up through college. i now coach it on the high school level. at every single level it has been expected that if you are not in uniform you will be dressed appropriately... normaly meaning shirt and tie.
"A shirt and tie" meaning archetypically white clothing. That's what I mean by "latent racism." Imagine if you were forced to wear archetypically "black clothing."

I don't expect to change society at all, since we're talking about ingrained cultural constructs here, but I feel like pointing out what seems like a bunch of nonsense to me. I have to ask "why" a shirt and a tie is "professional," and, yet, what these people are wearing is "not"? He may very well be an asshole in a yellow headband, but I think that's completely peripheral to this argument. A man in a shirt and a tie who acts like an asshole will still get disciplined, right?

Melon
__________________
melon is offline  
Old 10-19-2005, 12:30 PM   #29
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,472
Local Time: 04:17 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Headache in a Suitcase
to call this rule racist is obsurd. i've played basketball my entire life... from middle school up through college. i now coach it on the high school level. at every single level it has been expected that if you are not in uniform you will be dressed appropriately... normaly meaning shirt and tie. when traveling together as a team, it was also expected that you were dressed appropriately. meaning you either wore a shirt and tie, or as a team you all wore the same team issued warmups. at every level i've played... be it middle school, JV, varsity or college... if you violated these rules, you were not allowed on the bus... simple as that. if you were going to be part of the team, you were going to dress as a team and show a little bit of class. what you wore/did on your own time is your own business.


but that's because you are representing the school and you are dealing with children and teenagers. these are professional adult athletes.
__________________
Irvine511 is online now  
Old 10-19-2005, 12:32 PM   #30
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,649
Local Time: 03:17 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Headache in a Suitcase

secondly... basketball is played by more than just african-americans. this rule is in place for whites, blacks, asians, europeans, etc. etc. etc.

to call this rule racist is obsurd. i've played basketball my entire life... from middle school up through college. i now coach it on the high school level. at every single level it has been expected that if you are not in uniform you will be dressed appropriately... normaly meaning shirt and tie. when traveling together as a team, it was also expected that you were dressed appropriately.
First of all, attacking the individual is childish.

Secondly you are missing the point. Yes this rule applies to everyone, but how many of the white, asian, and european players were wearing chains?

No one is arguing that having the players dress appropriate is the issue.

The issue is that who and why are we making the decision that chains aren't appropriate? Many black people wear chains over their suits. Why is it not appropriate?

I've asked this three times in this thread yet no one can aswer me.
__________________

__________________
BVS is online now  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:17 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com