Can an Oscar be taken back? - Page 3 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 04-25-2004, 09:01 PM   #31
New Yorker
 
AvsGirl41's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Denver, Colorado
Posts: 2,948
Local Time: 03:54 AM
The odd thing is--and I admit, we *are* talking five years so my memory could be wrong--but I do recall Heston making the comment "from my cold, dead hands" while in Denver.
I remember seeing an accompanying photo and everything in the paper the next day!

I haven't seen BFC, but I've read enough stuff on it that my memory could be tainted.

Either way, I suppose this post is pretty pointless.
__________________

__________________
AvsGirl41 is offline  
Old 04-25-2004, 09:07 PM   #32
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,881
Local Time: 05:54 AM
SO lets step aside since everyone is so fired up and focused on the NRA.....Let's talk about the Willie Horton Ad....

[Q]However, the release of Moore's DVD proves otherwise. As we first documented, when "Bowling for Columbine" was released in theaters, it featured a 1988 Bush-Quayle ad called "Revolving Doors" (Real Player video), which criticized a prison furlough program in operation when Michael Dukakis was governor of Massachusetts. Though Horton was furloughed under the program in question, the ad did not explicitly mention him, unlike the more famous ad aired by the National Security Political Action Committee, which had close ties to Bush media advisor Roger Ailes.

But because this part of "Bowling" attempted to show how portrayals of black men are used to promote fear in the public, Moore inserted the caption llie Horton released. Then kills again." the ad, using a text style nearly identical to the ad's original captions. A casual viewer would assume that the text was part of the original ad. The caption is used to support Moore's statement, which runs over the sequence, that "whether you're a psychotic killer or running for president of the United States, the one thing you can always count on is white America's fear of the black man."

However, according to the archived video of the ad linked above, media reports and interviews with a high-level Dukakis official and political experts, the caption did not appear in the original ad. Moreover, it was incorrect -- Horton raped a woman while on furlough, but he did not commit murder.[/Q]


So if we examine this.....it was not a Bush Ad it was an ad from a group like MoveOn.

But what about the text? Saying he killed again????? He raped again....not killed.

Nice addition to the "Bush" ad that was not a Bush ad.
__________________

__________________
Dreadsox is offline  
Old 04-25-2004, 09:25 PM   #33
She's the One
 
martha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Orange County and all over the goddamn place
Posts: 42,338
Local Time: 02:54 AM
I thought this thread was about Bowling For Columbine, the film that won the Oscar? If you want to talk about dvd extras, ok, but let's refocus on the film.
__________________
martha is offline  
Old 04-25-2004, 09:28 PM   #34
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,881
Local Time: 05:54 AM
Its not a DVD EXTRA its in the movie....It was in the original movie, removed on the VHS, and kept in the DVD.....

But if I have to I can post other articles referring to this incident.

Curious though...why do you say DVD Extra when it was in the original movie?
__________________
Dreadsox is offline  
Old 04-25-2004, 09:36 PM   #35
Rock n' Roll Doggie
ALL ACCESS
 
ILuvLarryMullen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: in the sunshine
Posts: 6,904
Local Time: 02:54 AM
I may be the only person here, but I really like Bowling for Columbine and Michael Moore and was glad when he won the Oscar , and I also like some other people that are not popular on this board...but oh well, I think i'll just keep those to myself. It probably would be to his advantage to get some better fact checkers though.
__________________
ILuvLarryMullen is offline  
Old 04-25-2004, 09:42 PM   #36
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,881
Local Time: 05:54 AM
[Q]Much more mendaciously, Moore has apparently altered footage of an ad run by the Bush/Quayle campaign in 1988 to implicate Bush in the Willie Horton scandal. Making a point about the use of racial symbols to scare the American public, he shows the Bush/Quayle ad called "Revolving Doors," which attacked Michael Dukakis for a Massachusetts prison furlough program by showing prisoners entering and exiting a prison (the original ad can be seen here [Real Player video]). Superimposed over the footage of the prisoners is the text "Willie Horton released. Then kills again." This caption is displayed as if it is part of the original ad. However, existing footage, media reports and the recollections of several high-level people involved in the campaign indicate that the "Revolving Doors" ad did not explicitly mention Horton, unlike the notorious ad run by the National Security Political Action Committee (which had close ties to Bush media advisor Roger Ailes). In addition, the caption is incorrect -- Horton did not kill anyone while on prison furlough (he raped a woman).[/Q]
__________________
Dreadsox is offline  
Old 04-25-2004, 09:43 PM   #37
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,881
Local Time: 05:54 AM
[Q]1. Willie Horton. The first edition of the webpage had a section on falsification of the election ad regarding Willie Horton (the convict, not the baseball star). This was one of the earliest criticisms of Bowling--Ben Fritz caught it back in November, 2002.

To illustrate politicians' (and especially Republican politicians') willingness to play the "race card," Bowling shows what purports to be a television ad run by George Bush, Sr., in his race against Governor Dukakis. For those who weren't around back then -- Massachusetts had a "prison furlough" program where prisoners could be given short releases from the clink. Unfortunately, some of them never came back. Dukakis vetoed legislation which would have forbidden furlough to persons with "life without parole" sentences for murder, and authorities thereafter furloughed a number of murderers. Horton, in prison for a brutal stabbing murder, got a furlough, never returned, and then attacked a couple, assaulting both and raping the woman. His opponents in the presidential race took advantage of the veto.

The ad as shown by Moore begins with a "revolving door" of justice, progresses to a picture of Willie Horton (who is black), and ends with dramatic subtitle: "Willie Horton released. Then kills again."

Fact: Bowling splices together two different election ads, one run by the Bush campaign (featuring a revolving door, and not even mentioning Horton) and another run by an independent expenditure campaign (naming Horton, and showing footage from which it can be seen that he is black). At the end, the ad ala' Moore has the customary note that it was paid for by the Bush-Quayle campaign. Moore intones "whether you're a psychotic killer or running for president of the United States, the one thing you can always count on is white America's fear of the black man." There is nothing to reveal that most of the ad just seen (and all of it that was relevant to Moore's claim) was not the Bush-Quayle ad, which didn't even name Horton.

Fact: Apparently unsatisfied with splicing the ads, Bowling's editors added a subtitle "Willie Horton released. Then kills again."

Fact: Ben Fitz also noted that Bowling's editors didn't bother to research the events before doctoring the ads. Horton's second arrest was not for murder. (The second set of charges were aggravated assault and rape).

[/Q]
__________________
Dreadsox is offline  
Old 04-25-2004, 11:07 PM   #38
She's the One
 
martha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Orange County and all over the goddamn place
Posts: 42,338
Local Time: 02:54 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
Its not a DVD EXTRA its in the movie....It was in the original movie, removed on the VHS, and kept in the DVD.....

But if I have to I can post other articles referring to this incident.

Curious though...why do you say DVD Extra when it was in the original movie?
Because I spazzed and forgot it was in the movie. Because I saw the movie several years ago and I don't memorize stuff like this.

Why did you buy the movie if you hate it so much?
__________________
martha is offline  
Old 04-26-2004, 04:59 AM   #39
ONE
love, blood, life
 
FizzingWhizzbees's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: the choirgirl hotel
Posts: 12,614
Local Time: 10:54 AM
.
__________________
FizzingWhizzbees is offline  
Old 04-26-2004, 11:16 AM   #40
Blue Crack Addict
 
nbcrusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 02:54 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by martha
Why did you buy the movie if you hate it so much?
I've got to give Dread props for his commitment to research matters before he comments.
__________________
nbcrusader is offline  
Old 04-26-2004, 04:12 PM   #41
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,881
Local Time: 05:54 AM
Silence is defening.....

So I guess since it was OK to misrepresent Heston....but not ok to misrepresent Willie Horton?

Oh...if you watch the movie....when Heston says "from my cold dead hands" he is wearing a different shirt and tie from the rest of the speech. So I guess unless he left the stage and changed in the middle of it, it would be hard to have been the speech in Colorado....


I have more if anyone cares to discuss this further....the Willie Horton thing sickens me.
__________________
Dreadsox is offline  
Old 04-26-2004, 04:25 PM   #42
you are what you is
 
Salome's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 22,016
Local Time: 11:54 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
Silence is defening.....
indeed, you still haven't reacted to the posts stating that documentaries are hardly ever 'objective'

and I don't believe you have that much respect for Moore that you expect more from him than from others
__________________
“Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe.”
~Frank Zappa
Salome is offline  
Old 04-26-2004, 04:35 PM   #43
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,697
Local Time: 04:54 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox

Oh...if you watch the movie....when Heston says "from my cold dead hands" he is wearing a different shirt and tie from the rest of the speech. So I guess unless he left the stage and changed in the middle of it, it would be hard to have been the speech in Colorado....
He's like a rock star with costume changes...
__________________
BVS is online now  
Old 04-26-2004, 07:31 PM   #44
Refugee
 
OzAurora's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: The Sunshine Coast, Queensland, Australia
Posts: 1,612
Local Time: 09:54 PM
Good thread and funny because I just re-watched BFC yesterday as a friend left me his copy of it on DVD, I personally like Michael Moore and from the first time I saw one of his 'Awful Truth' shows I realised that a bit of what he was going on about was 'constructed' and that there was room for bias and subjectivity, but maybe it is the fact that I have done an arts degree, but with everything I watch, read and listen too I usually 'read' between the lines and dont take everything as 'gospel', ya got to be intelligent folks!!!!

But what I do like about Mr Moore is that he has raised some very interesting points, the most obvious being 'why does America have so many deaths to guns???' of course he is biased in his approach to reinforcing his opinion, however my point is look beyond this and 'look' at what is being questioned....

and moving on to the nature of documentaries, I think that anyone would be very hard pressed to find a documentary that was not in some way 'constructed' such as nature doco's and when looking at those that focus on events etc, very few of these are objective and free of bias. Having worked and studied as a journalist I can gurantee you that everything that you either watch on TV or read that you believe to be 'true' is in fact wrong- just as U2 said 'everything you know is wrong' the avenues of truth in our society such as news, or documentaries are scripted pieces that are edited, subject to bias and subjectivity and are sometimes constructed.

I will end now with a quote which was one of my favourtie ones when I was studying journalism at a post-graduate levle and I think that it is quite appropriate for here,

"Visual mediums selectively reproduce, rather than faithfully mirror reality" from Schirato & Yell, 'Communication and Cultural Literacy'.

Get used to this folks, reality will never be seen as 'reality', even if it is in fact said to be the truth or the news, I think what you need to be doing is to be asking yourself is 'how much of this do I want to believe and am I going to take the rest of it with a grain of salt?'
__________________
OzAurora is offline  
Old 04-26-2004, 08:06 PM   #45
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,881
Local Time: 05:54 AM
Awesome post Oz.

Salome....I actually enjoyed the movie...and I read Michael Moore's books. I read many books, written by people who I agree with, but I learn more reading books by people I disagree with.
__________________

__________________
Dreadsox is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:54 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com