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Old 11-23-2004, 05:21 AM   #1
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Can A Conservative Tax Plan Benefit All Social Classes?

Don't get me wrong, I find Bush's $1.3 trillion tax cut rather extreme. But I also think that quite a few people who make $200,000 or more a year have businesses and can offer more jobs if they can afford to hire more people. This could benefit both the underpriveliged class, middle class, and the unemployed. It can also increase spending, in theory, because it promotes economic activity. Maybe this helps bring a little logic to reaganomics.

What do all you Alan Greenspans think?
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Old 11-23-2004, 05:29 AM   #2
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All I know is, Republican tax plans always help me better personally. My husband is a civil service worker, and his tax breaks, raises and benefits are always better under the Rep. When Dems are in there, they block our raises, cut out our COLAs (cost of living increase, raise) and our health care premiums shoot way up. Not only the rich are helped. Look at it this way, the rich save more because they have more, but everyone saves, per capita, prorated to their own situation.
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Old 11-23-2004, 05:39 AM   #3
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Very interesting and good food for thought for this liberal. Do I have it all wrong?
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Old 11-23-2004, 05:49 AM   #4
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That's assuming when the rich have more money they feel benevolent...but for some reason the saying is true, rich get richer while the poor get poorer
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Old 11-23-2004, 05:56 AM   #5
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Re: Can A Conservative Tax Plan Benefit All Social Classes?

Quote:
Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
Don't get me wrong, I find Bush's $1.3 trillion tax cut rather extreme. But I also think that quite a few people who make $200,000 or more a year have businesses and can offer more jobs if they can afford to hire more people. This could benefit both the underpriveliged class, middle class, and the unemployed. It can also increase spending, in theory, because it promotes economic activity. Maybe this helps bring a little logic to reaganomics.

What do all you Alan Greenspans think?
Ah the trickle down myth. Reagan, Thatcher, Bush what do they all have in common. They cut the upper band of tax, in the belief that it would cause the rich folks (who incidentally give those politicians lots of money) to go out and spend more money, employ more people, and drive the economy. Result of this fantastical bit of nonsense...huge deficits and high unemployement.

The secret is this...if a rich person gets more money they save it (it's how they got rich), if a poor person gets more money they spend it on necessities. Middle class people either invest (in the hopes of become rich) or start spending on luxury items.

Economic growth is dicated by demand. A 'rich' person doesn't hire more people because he's feeling flush, he hires people because he's needs to fulfil customers orders.

Cutting the upper tax band is at best a very poor way of driving demand. Cutting the lower bands by a smaller amount works better, because the extra money goes straight back into the economy.

The other fallacy is that rich people drive the stock market. Wrong, pension funds and middle class investors make up the vast majority of shareholders.
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Old 11-23-2004, 05:59 AM   #6
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well said popshopper
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Old 11-23-2004, 06:19 AM   #7
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Yeah, thanks popshopper.
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Old 11-23-2004, 07:06 AM   #8
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Well, it's true most rich will never feel benevolent. However, I don't believe it's the government's place to take their money away from them and spend it as THEY see fit. I don't always agree with what the gov't does with their (our) money either. I am someone who is made sick by the thought of some people having $10million or more sitting in a bank while some can't pay their electric bill. But I also don't like the concept of the government taking people's money. They're both wrong.
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Old 11-23-2004, 07:08 AM   #9
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Since I don't trust the gov't, I have a suggestion that will never come to pass- in leiu of taxes, rich people and corporations could pay some of what they owe directly to charities of their choice.
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Old 11-23-2004, 07:26 AM   #10
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Originally posted by U2Kitten
Since I don't trust the gov't, I have a suggestion that will never come to pass- in leiu of taxes, rich people and corporations could pay some of what they owe directly to charities of their choice.
what about defense, roads...etc. some things have to be centrally paid for. The main problem is that the US government likes to spend far more money than it has.

I'm actually the opposite for you in this respect. The price of society is taxes, a tax scheme should be progressive (the poor pay less, the rich may more) simply because (for the reasons outlined above) it fuels the economy and allows everyone to be better off.

Of course if I lived in American I'd probably be classed as a communist but since I live in the UK I'm more than happy to get decent healthcare for the price of my taxes. At least everyone as access.
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Old 11-23-2004, 07:35 AM   #11
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yes, i am often called a socialist like it's a bad thing
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Old 11-23-2004, 07:36 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by U2Kitten
Well, it's true most rich will never feel benevolent. However, I don't believe it's the government's place to take their money away from them and spend it as THEY see fit. I don't always agree with what the gov't does with their (our) money either. ... But I also don't like the concept of the government taking people's money. They're both wrong.
Then how will the country ever pay for anything. I love how no one wants to pay taxes, yet they want the best security and such that money can buy. Just like pops use to say "money doesn't grow on trees."


Popshopper is absolutely right the theory of trickle down is nothing but that, a useless theory.
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Old 11-23-2004, 07:39 AM   #13
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It's a cultural/historic thing, really. I mean, heck we Americans started the Revolutionary War over taxes. I can see what you're saying about taxes and services. This makes me more leftist than most Americans, to be perfectly honest. I hope this doesn't piss anyone off. I have political views more like a Canadian or a European. It's sort of strange really.
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Old 11-23-2004, 07:46 AM   #14
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Originally posted by blueyedpoet
yes, i am often called a socialist like it's a bad thing
Me too. I don't think it's bad at all. Granted, it's not everyone's cup of tea and that's fine. That's why democracies have conservative parties to vote for if you don't like that approach. I want to at least have the chance to vote for something a little further left, although there's not a chance in hell of them getting elected in the U.S. I've gotten used to this, when I vote for someone who wins I'm usually in shock.
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Old 11-23-2004, 08:52 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by popshopper


what about defense, roads...etc. some things have to be centrally paid for.
That's why I said 'some of'


Quote:
The main problem is that the US government likes to spend far more money than it has.

Exactly, it sure does, and THAT is why I am eternally against candidates who mandate raising taxes as a way to solve problems or reduce the deficiet. Bullshit. The more they take the more they'll find a way to spend it, they're not paying off jack shit, just spending more. It's like your average person who gets a $500 bonus at work, are they going to pay off a bill or go on a skii trip or buy a plasma TV? It's the American way. But I waste enough of my own money, I don't need them to do it for me!
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