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Old 08-24-2008, 10:41 AM   #136
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I'm not sure why you think I am assigning myself the right to 'make the laws that govern other people's bodies', I never said anything of the sort. Your implication is incorrect.

We've been here before, I am only condemning activities I consider to be wrong.

As communities, we outlaw plenty of activities that the majority consider to be unnatural, immoral or wrong.

That's how civilised democracies work.
So.... which is it? Is abortion outlawed? Is it legal? Is the access to medical care available to all? Or not?
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Old 08-24-2008, 08:15 PM   #137
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As far as I know doctors are not being forced to perform abortions. Seems to me that contraception leads to fewer abortions.


and this is where my earlier point -- about elements of the pro-life movement being nothing more than a set of reactionary attitudes towards female sexuality that measure a woman's worth in her virginity -- comes into play.

if it were all about the babies, the focus would be on preventing unwanted pregnancies, not on preventing sex itself.

further, and i mean all of this as a broad point, if it were all about the babies, we would never hear about "exceptions for rape, incest, or the life of the mother." because if it was all about the babies, it doesn't matter if the child was created by rape or incest or whatever. it's a child, end of story, and therefore must be carried to term.

when you make these exceptions, it belies, to me, the attitude that pregnancy is a punishment for women who have sex.
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Old 08-24-2008, 08:22 PM   #138
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if it were all about the babies, we would never hear about "exceptions for rape, incest, or the life of the mother." because if it was all about the babies, it doesn't matter if the child was created by rape or incest or whatever. it's a child, end of story, and therefore must be carried to term.

There are some who don't even make this exception. Ask the kind citizens of South Dakota about that.

And most people who claim to make an exception in those cases, really have no idea how to implement it. I truly think it's just a bone they throw out, trying to make themselves sound reasonable, or at least let themselves sleep at night.
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Old 08-24-2008, 08:24 PM   #139
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There are some who don't even make this exception. Ask the kind citizens of South Dakota about that.

And most people who claim to make an exception in those cases, really have no idea how to implement it. I truly think it's just a bone they throw out, trying to make themselves sound reasonable, or at least let themselves sleep at night.


i think the ones that don't want to make the exception,

are at least more consistent

and less overly anti-women-having-sex.
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Old 08-24-2008, 08:34 PM   #140
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There are some who don't even make this exception. Ask the kind citizens of South Dakota about that.
Interesting. Are you the same Martha, not days ago, that was complaining about citizens of other states trying to affect legislation in California?
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Old 08-24-2008, 08:36 PM   #141
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i think the ones that don't want to make the exception,

are at least more consistent

and less overly anti-women-having-sex.
I did not realise you guys were living in some backward country where the government outlawed contraceptives.

For some reason, I laboured under the delusion that you guys were inhabitants of a jurisdiction in which contraceptives are more or less freely available.
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Old 08-24-2008, 08:36 PM   #142
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^

I don't think that you got her point - you seem to assume she's saying something she's not. Probably because you're not familiar with SD.

In SD, the pro-life groups and state senate pushed a complete abortion ban a couple of years ago. Then when wishful thinking turned into a reality, the citizens of the state had a huge and rather public case of buyer's remorse.
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Old 08-24-2008, 08:58 PM   #143
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Interesting. Are you the same Martha, not days ago, that was complaining about citizens of other states trying to affect legislation in California?
Dude, you need to get a grip on your dislike for me. It's affecting your posting again.

Where the hell did you come up with that conclusion? I was stating a fact as an example. Sheesh.
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Old 08-24-2008, 09:01 PM   #144
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I did not realise you guys were living in some backward country where the government outlawed contraceptives.

It's been tried here, and some states allow doctors to withhold prescriptions and access. Go reread some of the articles posted in this thread.

And then have some fun researching the Bush administration's restrictions on how US government agencies can handle contraception information in developing nations.

Your high horse is a little too high lately. You make assumptions and then have no idea what the hell you're talking about.
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Old 08-24-2008, 09:01 PM   #145
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^

I don't think that you got her point - you seem to assume she's saying something she's not. Probably because you're not familiar with SD.
No, it's because he does that with me constantly.
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Old 08-25-2008, 12:35 AM   #146
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I see this thread got rather ugly while I was away...

I don't see any good reason for this to be turned into an abortion thread (unless MrsS wants that, it's her thread); the procedure in question (AI) is routinely enough performed for infertile heterosexual couples, so the issue is whether it can be refused to lesbians on grounds of a doctor's moral objections to lesbian parenting. Obviously abortion isn't analogous to that; people who want abortion banned aren't looking to ban it only for women from certain social groups, while considering it A-OK for others.

martha and financeguy, I suggest you guys set each other to ignore; you don't seem to be able to interact for long without both of you losing your tempers and getting really nasty, and I think I've reached the end of any "reasoning" with either of you I can do about it.
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I was tempted to tell "Martha" to simply F#*K OFF but thought that would be rude...so...
As BVS already pointed out, this is no different from "simply" saying it, which is obviously not OK. When you think a rude post directed at you needs to be addressed, but can't manage a response that isn't rude yourself, then I suggest you report the post instead.
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Old 08-25-2008, 06:39 AM   #147
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I see this thread got rather ugly while I was away...

I don't see any good reason for this to be turned into an abortion thread (unless MrsS wants that, it's her thread); the procedure in question (AI) is routinely enough performed for infertile heterosexual couples, so the issue is whether it can be refused to lesbians on grounds of a doctor's moral objections to lesbian parenting. Obviously abortion isn't analogous to that; people who want abortion banned aren't looking to ban it only for women from certain social groups, while considering it A-OK for others.

Absolutely. Abortion has nothing to do with it....
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